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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Reading Order  (Read 28623 times)
SeraphTC

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #30 on: Apr 15th, 2011, 12:37pm »

Thanks Nick - I'm in the Bristol area for reference.

I'll definately be hunting around online. Our selection of actual Comic Book shops in this area is pretty limited unfortunately - we have a couple of good ones, but they don't deal in the second hand market, so when it's out of print it's tough.

Cheers for the links! smiley
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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #31 on: Apr 15th, 2011, 3:12pm »

on Apr 15th, 2011, 11:35am, Nick wrote:
I'd also keep an eye out for Prodigal and Legacy, these are two long out of print books that are highly sought after. Prodigal especially is important, and a great read! smiley


Oh yeah, I remember having a very difficult time finding a copy of Legacy years ago. I can't even remember where I eventually found it, but I think I paid quite a bit for it. I think I bought it used from someone on Amazon, not directly from Amazon. I don't remember having much trouble finding Prodigal, though. I must have gotten lucky.
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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #32 on: Apr 15th, 2011, 3:24pm »

on Apr 15th, 2011, 10:05am, SeraphTC wrote:
I'm having real problems locating 'Nightwing Year One'. Can you guys recommend anything? I'm in the UK. I've been hunting around ebay and amazon and a UK online comic store I located, but I'm not having any luck.

I tried the most local store, but as it's out of print and they don't deal with second hand stock, they can't get it.



I either have a second copy or have one at my store. Private message me if you're interested.
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SeraphTC

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #33 on: Apr 15th, 2011, 5:59pm »

Thanks Snipe - I've sent you a PM.

With the exception of Nightwing Year One and Last Arkham I think I have located reasonably priced copies of everything I want that fits between 'Batman: Year One' and 'Sword of Azrael' - and as Nick seemed to get quite excited about, then we are into Knightfall etc

That however, will almost certainly have to wait until I get paid!

Aside from hopefully having enough for the two TPB's I'm missing, I'm shit outta cash! lol

On the plus side, I have so much awesome stuff to read (or on the way) that I'm pretty stoked smiley

I really appreciate all the advice guys - thanks!!
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SeraphTC

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #34 on: Apr 15th, 2011, 7:15pm »

No sooner had I posted and PM'd Snipe than I found a really reasonable copy of Last Arkham on Amazon - so now I just need Nightwing: Year One.

This time last week I owned precisely no Batman TPB's.

By the time all of my current orders arrive, I'll own 30.

Seems like a good start!! cheesy
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SeraphTC

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #35 on: Apr 18th, 2011, 09:54am »

I think it might be like TPB Christmas around here for a couple of weeks....

Had 4x turn up on Sat morning, and another 2.5 today...

I say 2.5, as apparently the guys who I ordered 'Gauntlet' from actually didn't have it in stock, so they sent me a full refund and a nice copy of 'Batman Chronicles #1' - which has 3x standalone stories in - in the first, Gordon appears to have retired, and Huntress seems to makes an earlyish appearance - so where the heck does that fit in!?
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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #36 on: Apr 18th, 2011, 12:03pm »

Batman Chronicles #1 takes place in the present as of the time it was written, which was 1995. It was during a time period in the wake of Knightfall where Gordon had quit police force and his wife, Sarah Essen (you may remember her as the woman he had an affair with in Year One), took over as Commissioner. He was reinstated during the Contagion storyline shortly thereafter. His brief exile from the police force during that time is largely forgettable in the grand scheme of things. And that's actually not an early appearance of Huntress. She had already been around for some time at that point. cool
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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #37 on: Apr 18th, 2011, 12:48pm »

Thanks TurkeyMoose!

I've currently got it slotted in between 'Sword of Azrael' and 'Hush' - which I guess is about correct based on the fact that I don't own anything else between those two books at present.

I've found a copy of Nightwing: Year One on Amazon Marketplace - but including postage it's going to work out at just shy of 40, which seems a *tad* expensive.

Is Venom worth reading? Is it referenced at all in 'Knightfall/Knightsend'?
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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #38 on: Apr 18th, 2011, 1:47pm »

I think Venom is pretty essential. It is pretty good and yes, it is briefly mentioned in Knightfall. The connection is that the villain Bane uses the same drug Batman used years earlier in Venom. However, by no means do you actually have to read Venom to understand Knightfall. I just think it's a good read and pretty important to continuity. cheesy
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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #39 on: Apr 18th, 2011, 4:01pm »

Venom was written before KnightFall and it introduces the drug. I really don't think either reference the other, but it's good background on what goes on.
Continuity-wise, Venom shows Bruce taking an extended break from being Batman - I'm trying to be as spoiler-free as possible, but it's difficult to place it in the time for when it was to take place. There's just too much going on them for him to take that break.
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Nick

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #40 on: Apr 18th, 2011, 10:48pm »

on Apr 18th, 2011, 4:01pm, snipe wrote:
Venom was written before KnightFall and it introduces the drug. I really don't think either reference the other, but it's good background on what goes on.
Continuity-wise, Venom shows Bruce taking an extended break from being Batman - I'm trying to be as spoiler-free as possible, but it's difficult to place it in the time for when it was to take place. There's just too much going on them for him to take that break.


Likes his breaks doesn't he. There was that time where he disappeared for six months during Going Sane. Then there was this other Legends story where he's kidnapped and drugged long enough to lose all of his muscle thus making him ineffectual. And I'm sure there are many other books he's gone missing or taken breaks for extended periods of time. Overall if you actually factored in all of his time off into real time it would probably double the length of his career beyond what it currently is!
---

The thing that bothers me the most is the crazy timeline, for whatever reason I'm going to try to work it out based around the fact No Mans Land made regular comments that is was Year Ten and set in 1999.

As far as I can work out it was supposed to be:

Year One (1990) - Solo Batman (Bruce 23-27)
Year Two - Late in the year we meet Dick Grayson (age 12)
Year Three - Grayson passes the Gauntlet

Year Six - Grayson is Robin (until 16), We meet Jason Todd
Year Seven - Jason Todd is Robin, then Bruce flies solo and we meet Tim Drake
Year Eight - Tim Becomes Robin age 11, Knightfall
Year Nine - Prodigal, Contagion, Legacy, Cataclysm
Year Ten (1999) - No Mans Land

Year Eleven - Officer Down, Murderer, Fugitive
Year Twelve - Hush, War Games, Dick's year of hell.
Year Thirteen - War Crimes, Under The Hood, Dick disappears for months and joins the Mafia
Year Fourteen - 52
Year Fifteen - One Year Later, Batman & Son, RIP (This was repeatedly placed as 2005 or 2006 which kinda works)
Year Sixteen - Batman Reborn, Batman INC, Dick 27-28, Damian 10-11, Tim 19, Bruce 39-43

That's my best guess anyway. Anybody care to add further ideas?

There is not enought time in that first ten years to fit everything in. Especially if The Long Halloween was supposed to be a full year, and then Dark Victory is still to fit in. Why am I even thinking about this? It's pointless, there is no answer to this stupid timeline! I should go to bed.
« Last Edit: Apr 18th, 2011, 11:12pm by Nick » User IP Logged

SeraphTC

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #41 on: Apr 19th, 2011, 03:52am »

Yeah, I think the answer is to factor in 'Bat-Time' (or maybe it's DCU-Time?)

As much as I like to read everything in order, I'm not going to even try to worry about timescales, as they just don't work!

Sounds like I should probably be hunting for a copy of Venom then... smiley
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SeraphTC

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #42 on: Apr 19th, 2011, 10:43am »

It's interesting, but until I started talking to you guys, my 'wanted' list was pretty small, and my collection was even smaller. In just over a week, I have amassed the following:

'Year One' :

Batman: Year One
Catwoman: Her Sisters Keeper
Shaman
Batman and the Monster Men
Batman and the Mad Monk
Man Who Laughs
Four of a Kind
Prey
Venom
Haunted Night
Snow
The Long Halloween
Terror
Batman: Year Two
Night Cries
Dark Victory
Catwoman: When in Rome
The Gauntlet
Robin: Year One
Full Circle
Batgirl: Year One
Batman: Batgirl
Nightwing: Year One
Batman: Ten Nights of the Beast
Huntress: Year One
Batgirl Special #1
The Killing Joke
Oracle: Year One
The Cult
A Death In The Family
A Lonely Place Of Dying
Detective 618 - 621
Robin: Hero Reborn
Robin II 1 - 5
Catwoman: Defiant
The Last Arkham
The Sword of Azrael
Vengeance of Bane
Robin III
Knightfall #1
Knightfall #2
Robin: Flying Solo
KnightQuest Crusade
KnightQuest The Search
Robin 7
Knightsend
Robin Knightsend Aftermath
Catwoman 13
Showcase 94 #10


'Post Zero Hour':
Prodigal
Troika
Catwoman: The Catfile
Vengeance of Bane II
Nightwing: Ties That Bind
Bane of the Demon
Batman #518 - #528
Azrael #1 - #14*
Contagion
Catwoman #33 - #35*
Legacy
Batman: Blackgate
Nightwing: Knight In Bludhaven
Batman: Bane
Nightwing: Rough Justice
Cataclysm
Nightwing: Huntress
Aftershock
Road To No Man's Land
Nightwing: Love and Bullets
No Man's Land 1
No Man's Land 2
No Man's Land 3
Batman: Harley Quinn
No Man's Land 4
Nightwing: A Darker Shade of Justice
No Man's Land 5
Batman Chronicles #1
Hush


'ElseWorlds' :

Batman/Vampire
Holy Terror
Gotham by Gaslight


'Other Stuff' :

Arkham Asylum
The Dark Knight Returns
Catwoman Annual 2
Gothic
Batman: Tales of the Demon

Anything Marked with a '*' has been ordered and paid for (or reserved from my local shop) but hasn't turned up yet (or is waiting to be picked up).

Anything Marked with a '**' I'm having trouble getting hold of.

My 'Wanted' list is currently a lot smaller - just 'Venom' and 'Nightwing: Year One' 'Prodigal''Harley Quinn'. That will change once I've had all my orders arrive and I've been paid again - at which point I'll be hunting for things in between Knightfall No Man's Land and Hush.
« Last Edit: Sep 21st, 2011, 08:34am by SeraphTC » User IP Logged

TurkeyMoose

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #43 on: Apr 19th, 2011, 1:30pm »

Yeah, I don't usually put much emphasis on the timescale of everything. The continuity is sprinkled with inaccuracies about lengths of time. I recall an issue of Teen Titans from right after A Death in the Family where Dick was talking with Starfire and he says to her "I was Robin for almost 12 years". No way! When I read that issue, I just have to "imagine" that he said "5 years". That little piece of dialogue is not a major part of the story so one can just "pretend" that he said something that makes more sense. I think the same could go for Bruce's break in Venom. Just imagine that he was away for a week instead of a month.

Now just a few notes about your list:

I notice the stories Batman and the Monster Men and Batman and the Mad Monk are missing from your list. I know Nick doesn't like them, but I actually think those stories are very good and totally worth reading. They happen very early, preferably right after Shaman on your list. Also, The Man Who Laughs should go right after Mad Monk because the ending of Man Monk happens immediately before the beginning of Man Who Laughs.

Snow needs to go before Long Halloween because Mr. Freeze is in Long Halloween.

I'm not sure Catwoman: Defiant should be in this era. I noticed Nick had it around there on his list, but I don't recall anything about the story that suggests it should be set in the early days. I have it placed in the present time as of when it was written (1992).

I'm also not sure about Huntress: Year One. I have that placed much later in continuity; like shortly before The Killing Joke. To be honest, I was not happy with the inclusion of Batgirl in this story. All previous tellings of Huntress' origin have her starting out after Barbara was paralyzed. As we know, Huntress was originally the daughter of Batman and Catwoman in another universe and was erased from continuity in the Crisis in 1985. Then a new version of the character was introduced in 1989; this was after The Killing Joke. This new version of the character first encountered Batman in Justice League America #26 (1989). Then in 2000, they come out with Batman/Huntress: Cry For Blood. The flashback sequences in this story retcon many aspects of Huntress' 1989 origin: she was now native to Gotham City, rather than being born in New York and starting her crime-fighting career there before relocating to Gotham. Also, more importantly, her family was now murdered when she was a child, rather than a young adult. I wasn't happy with that change. The whole "my parents were murdered when I was a child" thing has been done before (e.g. Bruce Wayne). I liked that it happened to her when she was 19. Anyway, I can't be too mad at Cry For Blood because it is actually a good story. Huntress: Year One just stays true to the continuity changes laid out in Cry For Blood. Regardless, I keep Huntress: Year One as late in continuity as I can considering that Batgirl is in it, so I keep it right before Batgirl is paralyzed. This keeps it as close to her 1989 origin as possible. Also, although I had to remove her short-lived 1989 self-titled series because it is totally incompatible with the changes in Huntress: Year One and Cry For Blood, I cannot remove the issue of Justice League where Huntress encounters Batman for the "first time" because I have every issue of the Justice League series, so that issue has to stay whether I like it or not. It may not make much sense since Huntress and Batman have already encountered each other in Huntress: Year One, but it at least makes a little more sense if I keep Huntress: Year One only shortly before that so it's not like Huntress has already been around for years.

One more thing you might want to pick up to go along with Robin: A Hero Reborn is Robin: Tragedy & Triumph. The only problem with it is that it is poorly collected. The first part of Tragedy & Triumph takes place before A Hero Reborn, while the second part takes place after A Hero Reborn. For this reason, I don't keep the TPB on my shelf; I have the single issues placed where they properly go on the timeline. But since you're dealing primarily with TPBs, I'll suggest this one.

cheesy
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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #44 on: Apr 19th, 2011, 3:52pm »

on Apr 19th, 2011, 1:30pm, TurkeyMoose wrote:
I recall an issue of Teen Titans from right after A Death in the Family where Dick was talking with Starfire and he says to her "I was Robin for almost 12 years". No way!


Depends. If he was 8 when he started and 20 when he said that, it works. Many (mostly pre-Crisis) sources say he started as Robin at 8.
I think you're closer to right - more recent sources say 5-6 years - like 13 to 19.
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