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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: Reading Order  (Read 28626 times)
SeraphTC

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #90 on: May 15th, 2011, 09:06am »

Looks like I've acquired a copy of 'Ten Nights of the Beast', but I'm having real trouble locating a copy of 'Harley Quinn'.
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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #91 on: May 15th, 2011, 09:34am »

on May 15th, 2011, 09:06am, SeraphTC wrote:
but I'm having real trouble locating a copy of 'Harley Quinn'.


Yeah, it's a bloody rare one that, that people often sell at ridiculous prices. Honestly I'm surprised DC never reprinted it. The Man Who Laughs (which sucks anyway) was, alongside Harley, another rare and ridiculously overpriced book that was in high demand - then DC reprinted it as a ridiculously overpriced Hardcover (and later paperback).

But then again, DC's print priorities never made sense. Super amazing awesome work like Devin Grayson's Nightwing wonder-run have never been collected, nor has some great Catwoman stuff from the same period - Both of which contained some of the most vital stories in modern continuity for their character development. Yet things like City Of Crime and AJ Leiberman's abortion known as Hush Returns have been collected when all trace of them should be erased from history and the corresponding issues burnt! sad

Hell, DC's printing is so erratic at times that they never even included the goddamn conclusion to War Games in the bloody trades! Seriously, War Games: Act 3 TPB does not contain the final issue! For the record that is Batman #634.
« Last Edit: May 15th, 2011, 09:39am by Nick » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #92 on: May 15th, 2011, 11:32am »

Yeah to be honest I've noticed a few issues with DC's printing (or lack of printing). I've gone beyond buying the TPB's that I want into buying the *stories* that I want.

Some of the books are so overpriced that I've just bought the individual issues instead.

I'll keep looking for Harley - I'm fairly sure I'll find a copy.

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #93 on: May 16th, 2011, 06:21am »

on May 15th, 2011, 09:34am, Nick wrote:
Yeah, it's a bloody rare one that, that people often sell at ridiculous prices. Honestly I'm surprised DC never reprinted it. The Man Who Laughs (which sucks anyway) was, alongside Harley, another rare and ridiculously overpriced book that was in high demand - then DC reprinted it as a ridiculously overpriced Hardcover (and later paperback).

But then again, DC's print priorities never made sense. Super amazing awesome work like Devin Grayson's Nightwing wonder-run have never been collected, nor has some great Catwoman stuff from the same period - Both of which contained some of the most vital stories in modern continuity for their character development. Yet things like City Of Crime and AJ Leiberman's abortion known as Hush Returns have been collected when all trace of them should be erased from history and the corresponding issues burnt! sad

Hell, DC's printing is so erratic at times that they never even included the goddamn conclusion to War Games in the bloody trades! Seriously, War Games: Act 3 TPB does not contain the final issue! For the record that is Batman #634.


Batman #634 is actually not officially a part of War Games. It's just the epilogue, and several other things take place before that issue. On my shelf, after War Games: Act 3, I have Identity Crisis, Robin/Batgirl: Fresh Blood, Detective Comics #800, Birds of Prey #75, and Gotham Central #25. Then comes Batman #634. Based on the dialogue of that issue, all of those things had to happen first. So I'm kind of glad they didn't put Batman #634 in the Act 3 TPB because I still would have had to keep the single issue on the shelf after that other stuff where it properly goes anyway.

One of my biggest pet peeves is actually when they decide to just throw in an issue at the end that doesn't belong. The aforementioned Hush Returns (which I do not think is that bad) is like that. It collects the main story arc that was printed in Gotham Knights #50-55, but then for no apparent reason they decided to throw in Gotham Knights #66 as well. That's over ten issues later and a lot of stuff happens in between there. So I have to keep a little bookmark before that chapter in the TPB to signify a stopping point, then I have the single issue of #66 later on the shelf where it's supposed to go.
« Last Edit: May 16th, 2011, 06:22am by TurkeyMoose » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #94 on: May 16th, 2011, 09:01am »

Do you think? To me it comes right after War Games, and especially it comes before Robin/Batgirl: Fresh Blood. I'd say due to the dialogue (and the events I shall not spoil) it must come before Fresh Blood. There is some stuff that happens to Tim before it, but it is a very important Epilogue to the events of War Games, especially so in the context of War Crimes. I have it sitting right next to War Games, then I have:

Birds Of Prey: Between Dark and Dawn
Nightwing #99/100
Gotham Central: The Quick and the Dead
Catwoman: #37-43 (Yes I create my own trades tongue)
Robin/Batgirl: Fresh Blood

I hear you on the collecting issues that come in different places. Birds of Prey had a really bad one where one TPB was half before One Year Later, and half after OYL! I've just worked my way through Gotham Central and there's a lot of that sort of thing going on where they start before one of my trades, and then jump multiple trades later. A recent example is the Arkham Reborn trade.
« Last Edit: May 16th, 2011, 7:52pm by Nick » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #95 on: May 17th, 2011, 12:31am »

*Minor Spoilers Below*

It just seemed to me like Batman #634 was happening after all the other stuff because it has Bruce and Dick sitting in the manor talking about recent events and it's mostly flashbacks. Then Bruce says something about Oracle moving away (Birds of Prey #75) and Tim and Cassandra moving away (Fresh Blood), and I think he mentioned something about his relationship with the police force going sour (Gotham Central #25). It does show a few scenes of the events immediately after War Games, like Bruce telling Tim about Stephanie, but that was in a flashback. The present of that story where they're sitting in the manor recalling all this stuff seems to happen after all that other stuff.

And yeah, the way they package the TPBs sometimes is annoying. Birds of Prey: Between Dark and Dawn is actually like that. Clearly the bulk of the story takes place before War Games, but they include issue #75 at the end, which is right after War Games. They should have stopped the TPB at issue #74 and then started the next one with #75. I just keep the Dark and Dawn TPB on the shelf before War Games and keep a bookmark before the last chapter so I remember not to read that part, then I have the #75 single issue after War Games. tongue

I've also noticed a disturbing trend where they end a TPB on a cliffhanger. It's obviously a financial strategy. They noticed that some people are starting to skip the monthly single issues and just wait for the TPB to get the whole story, so the old trick of ending an issue on a cliffhanger doesn't work anymore to bring people back, so now they're ending whole TPBs on cliffhangers so people will buy the next one. Sometimes it doesn't matter that much because I was just going to buy the next TPB anyway, but it wreaks havoc with the placement on the shelf because I might have three consecutive TPBs comprised of like 20 issues that all need to go back to back to back because they continue into each other. TPBs should always end on a stopping point. It's cool if elements of the story pick up in the next one, but I don't like it when it ends on a direct cliffhanger where someone is pointing a gun at someone or whatever and then "to be continued". Such cliffhangers need to be followed up on immediately and nothing can be placed between them, but I don't want like 20 consecutive issues of something all together when there are good stopping points in the middle of the books. For that reason, I had to keep some of the recent Catwoman TPBs off the shelf and just use the single issues so I could divide them up where they should be divided.
« Last Edit: May 17th, 2011, 04:23am by TurkeyMoose » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #96 on: May 17th, 2011, 02:44am »

I'm not sure what's worse...having a single issue on the end of a TPB where there should be a gap...or having an entire extra story included where it does not bear any relevance to the main story, and is set *years* after the main story...

I just finished 'Man who Laughs' (which I actually thought was ok) and was pretty confused by the inclusion of the 'Made of Wood' story. WTF does that have to do with the title story?? Not to mention when it's set...

That's a pretty obvious bit of book padding. I'm sure DC could have found something more relevant to include there.
« Last Edit: May 17th, 2011, 02:44am by SeraphTC » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #97 on: May 17th, 2011, 08:32am »

I had to put it right after War Games simply because Dick was there. Nightwing #98 is in War Games 3, and in Nightwing #99 he abandons the cave and Gotham and is not seen again until he resurfaces as part of the mafia (which was an awesome storyline!). For that reason there was not a whole lot of time for him to sit down with Bruce unless it was right after they got him back to the cave and before he ran out again. Also for these reasons his appearance in Winick's Under The Hood made no sense either...
---

As annoying as it is when they include stories that are set in different time periods, I think I prefer it to not having those stories at all on my shelf.

For example, Turning Points is set from roughly Year One - Evolution sort of time. As such I simply have it placed straight after Evolution, because the final issue looks like it can be placed there, and the rest can be explained away as Batman and Gordon thinking of the past and how they got to where they were at that moment.

It isn't ideal, but it's better than nothing I guess.
---

I can't speak for the ancillary story in The Man Who Laughs reprint because I have the original One Shot and so have not read it. But the extra material was included simply to justify DC extorting it as a "Special Edition" like they did with Whatever Happened To The Caped Crusader (irrelevant to Continuity) and the horrific reprint of The Killing Joke (where they also ruined the previously beautiful colours). sad
---

I know what you mean about the later Catwoman Trades. Nightwing: Mobbed Up/Renegade seriously had that problem. I just accept that so many events are happening alongside it that books have to seperate them, as it is I have Robin: Days Of Fire & Madness and Under The Hood 2 between them.

One of the biggest headaches I've had in recent years is the way lesser writers have ignored what is going on in Morrison's plot, which is without a doubt the main story going on. Particularly how numerous people ignored the fact that The Joker was totally out of action between the very first issue of Batman & Son and the final issue of Batman & Robin Must Die (for various plot reasons). Because of this I've had to put every single appearance of The Joker pre-Battle For The Cowl ahead of Batman & Son. Quite honestly I did the best job I could, but there are some looong gaps for certain characters simply because of lazy writers. Catwoman and Birds Of Prey are the hardest ones to place because of their Joker usage.

The section in particular I refer to goes as such on my shelf:

Death And The City
Joker's Asylum 1/2
Robin: The Big Leagues
Nightwing: The Lost Year
Catwoman Dies
Catwoman: Crime Pays
Birds Of Prey: Metropolis Or Dust
Gotham Underground
Catwoman: The Long Road Home
Birds Of Prey: Platimum Flats
Batman & Son
The Resurrection Of Ra's Al Ghul
Private Casebook
Robin: Violent Tendencies
The Back Glove
Nightwing: Freefall
Heart Of Hush
Batman RIP
etc etc

As you can see, there is a massive gap between the final Birds Trade, and the Oracle TPB from Battle For The Cowl, but there is absolutely no other way it can possibly be placed with the old school depiction of an The Joker. And there is also a suspiciously long gap between the final Catwoman TPB that is set just after her return, and Private Casebook, just after her return, where Dini also has a story about Batman discovering she's back.

*sigh*
« Last Edit: May 17th, 2011, 09:49am by Nick » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #98 on: Sep 21st, 2011, 08:54am »

I've made a few more additions to my collection, so I'm going to put it here so I don't have to keep jumping back to page 3 of the thread wink

'Post Crisis':
Batman: Year One
Catwoman: Her Sisters Keeper
Shaman
Batman and the Monster Men
Batman and the Mad Monk
Man Who Laughs
Four of a Kind
Prey
Venom
Haunted Night
Snow
The Long Halloween
Terror
Batman: Year Two
Night Cries
Dark Victory
Catwoman: When in Rome
The Gauntlet
Robin: Year One
Full Circle
Batgirl: Year One
Batman: Batgirl
Nightwing: Year One
Batman: Ten Nights of the Beast
Huntress: Year One
Batgirl Special #1
The Killing Joke
Oracle: Year One
The Cult
A Death In The Family
A Lonely Place Of Dying
Detective 618 - 621
Robin: Hero Reborn
Robin II 1 - 5
Catwoman: Defiant
The Last Arkham
The Sword of Azrael
Vengeance of Bane
Robin III
Knightfall #1
Knightfall #2
Robin: Flying Solo
KnightQuest Crusade
KnightQuest The Search
Robin 7
Knightsend
Robin Knightsend Aftermath
Catwoman 13
Showcase 94 #10


'Post Zero Hour':
Prodigal
Troika
Catwoman: The Catfile
Vengeance of Bane II
Nightwing: Ties That Bind
Bane of the Demon
Batman #518 - #528
Batman Chronicles #1
Azrael #1 - #14
Contagion
Catwoman #33 - #35
Legacy
Batman: GCPD
Batman: Blackgate
Nightwing: Knight In Bludhaven
Batman: Bane
Nightwing: Rough Justice
Gordon's Law
Cataclysm
Nightwing: Huntress
Gordon of Gotham
Aftershock
Road To No Man's Land
Nightwing: Love and Bullets
No Man's Land 1
No Man's Land 2
No Man's Land 3
Bullock's Law
Batman: Harley Quinn
No Man's Land 4
Nightwing: A Darker Shade of Justice
No Man's Land 5
Hush


'ElseWorlds':
Batman/Vampire
Holy Terror
Gotham by Gaslight


'Other Stuff':
Arkham Asylum
The Dark Knight Returns
Catwoman Annual 2
Gothic
Batman: Tales of the Demon

Anything Marked with a '*' has been ordered and paid for (or reserved from my local shop) but hasn't turned up yet (or is waiting to be picked up).

Anything Marked with a '**' I'm having trouble getting hold of.



I keep trying to reach Cataclysm, and I'm getting there, but I keep finding references in books to things that have gone before that I don't understand, and want to (ie, during 'Contagion' Jim Gordon is no longer commisioner). Due to this, I keep finding I need to backfill my collection with individual episodes.

I'm currently sourcing a copy of 'GCPD'. In the meantime, I've gone ahead and read on up to the end of 'Rough Justice'.

I'm still enjoying it all smiley

I need to go back and read the issues of Azrael that I've purchased (still waiting to #8 - #14 to turn up, which should be this week), but Still waiting on Catowman #33 - #35, 'Gordon's Law' and 'Gordon of Gotham'. I'll hold off for those and read them, then once I've done that I'm going to press on into Cataclysm and through No Man's Land.

Am I missing anything important from that section, or is this an occaision when the TPB's should cover everything I need?
« Last Edit: Sep 29th, 2011, 08:26am by SeraphTC » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #99 on: Sep 21st, 2011, 10:30am »

I was also wondering whether 'Bullock's Law', 'Gordon of Gotham' or 'Gordon's Law' were worth reading?

EDIT: Well, I just bought them, so fingers crossed! cheesy


So where does 'Gordon's Law' fit into my timeline? I've currently got it placed right after Rough Justice. That's purely because I think (from the sound of it) that it *might* fit there, and because that's where I've read up to smiley

I've also got a question about GCPD - based on where I have it, I'm not sure it makes sense. Jim Gordon is Commissioner, and Sarah Essen-Gordon is present as the Major Crimes Lieutenant during this arc - but she resigns that post to become the liason to the Mayor's office at the end of Contagion. Shouldn't it therefore be placed prior to Gordon quitting (pre Contagion)?
« Last Edit: Sep 29th, 2011, 04:56am by SeraphTC » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #100 on: Sep 29th, 2011, 09:52am »

Aside from the relaunch thread, everything seems a little quiet here atm...so....I'm just going to insert a little nudge here in the hopes that someone notices it wink
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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #101 on: Sep 29th, 2011, 4:28pm »

on Sep 21st, 2011, 10:30am, SeraphTC wrote:
I was also wondering whether 'Bullock's Law', 'Gordon of Gotham' or 'Gordon's Law' were worth reading?

EDIT: Well, I just bought them, so fingers crossed! cheesy


So where does 'Gordon's Law' fit into my timeline? I've currently got it placed right after Rough Justice. That's purely because I think (from the sound of it) that it *might* fit there, and because that's where I've read up to smiley

I've also got a question about GCPD - based on where I have it, I'm not sure it makes sense. Jim Gordon is Commissioner, and Sarah Essen-Gordon is present as the Major Crimes Lieutenant during this arc - but she resigns that post to become the liason to the Mayor's office at the end of Contagion. Shouldn't it therefore be placed prior to Gordon quitting (pre Contagion)?


Man, I haven't read those in years. I don't think they were set in the past, I think they'd fit where they were published.
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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #102 on: Sep 30th, 2011, 03:15am »

Well that's what I thought until I read GCPD, but it didn't seem to work.

Unless ofc there is some stuff in between Legacy and GCPD where SEG rejoins Major Crimes?

Any ideas?

As for Gordon's Law, I'll have a read and try and see if I can figure out where it goes smiley
« Last Edit: Sep 30th, 2011, 09:34am by SeraphTC » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #103 on: Oct 5th, 2011, 10:10am »

Anothing thing is, I don't see how the Nightwing/Huntress book fits in between Cataclysm and Aftershock. In the book, the city is not showing any signs at all of having endured an earthquake. I'm thinking that's either set later or a bit prior to cataclysm.

I think Gordon of Gotham probably fits in a bit later as well. I'm not really sure when the presidential elections crop up in the timeline as they are not really mentioned much, but again, neither the city or GCPD was showing any signs of the recent earthquake throughout that story. I'm thinking that's supposed to drop in later - maybe during or around no man's land.
« Last Edit: Oct 5th, 2011, 10:10am by SeraphTC » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Reading Order
« Reply #104 on: Oct 5th, 2011, 12:27pm »

All of those things should be placed before Cataclysm. There are indeed a few stories that were written after the earthquake that didn't quite adhere to what was happening in the main line at the time, so they just need to be placed before the earthquake.
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