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 hotthread  Author  Topic: Batman & the Monster Men  (Read 11744 times)
snipe
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xx Re: Batman & the Monster Men
« Reply #15 on: Dec 24th, 2005, 10:31am »

As for you citing Prey, Legends of the Dark Knight is a title designed to be, for the most part, out of continuity.
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xx Re: Batman & the Monster Men
« Reply #16 on: Dec 24th, 2005, 11:58am »

on Dec 23rd, 2005, 05:26am, Will wrote:
The Crisis, Year One and all that follows: there's a chronological connectivity. And, as asseverated by DC, a disconnect from any stories not mentioned in that newly threaded line.


Right. So Dick Grayson was Robin for part of 1 issue (Batman #408) in current continuity. This must be since he was fired by Batman the issue directly following the end of Year One (#407). Jason Todd then was offered the Robin job in the very next issue (#409).
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xx Re: Batman & the Monster Men
« Reply #17 on: Mar 8th, 2006, 10:42am »

I thought that monster Man and Mad Monk will be in continuity now. Wagner attampt to refresh this to classic storys and put them to actual continuity, so I don't understand your "enthusiasm"....

In recently work of Matt Wagner I don't like arts. In Faces or Grendels crossovers Wagner draw Batman more drak and mysterious. I liked his postmodernistic style from 90's XX century. Now he pencil more in TAS style. In my point of view it isn't correct.... also Dave Stewart gave comic more colors, which nohow fit in atmosphere of Dark Knight.
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xx Re: Batman & the Monster Men
« Reply #18 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 09:25am »

How about the effect of Zero Hour? Aren't some post-crisis things now considered out-of-continuity, like Year Two?
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xx Re: Batman & the Monster Men
« Reply #19 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 10:52am »

on Dec 23rd, 2005, 03:19am, Will wrote:


And it also contradicts Prey.

Point: this is the pre-Crisis board. Why you have such a board when you consider there to be little to no difference between pre and post-Crisis I can't understand.



So the multiverse -- the bane of DC's continuity -- remained, just all of its earths were destroyed? Huh?

And if those earths were destroyed, how could their backstory be assumed to be a part of the one earth that survived considering their separate nature? If you insist on this path, you've got a hell of a lot to explain with gaps in logic that may be too big sew together.

I seem to remember the Superman of Earth-2 attempting to go back to that universe only to be met with anti-matter -- not simply a missing planet, but a missing universe.

But if this Earth already existed then that means you're undermining your entire stance -- i.e. that pre-Crisis stories from a separate earth somehow play into what happened on the one we now follow.



Year One is a pre-Crisis story?

That's a new one. But, since it's a "fact", I'd assume you actually have some evidence?



Year One is not pre-Crisis. It was published after and in reaction to The Crisis on Infinite Earths. If that storyline isn't post-Crisis, what makes any event fall under that moniker?

Is there a meaningful difference between the two from your perspective?



So we have a timeline that is a mess. I've been saying that all along.



Here's an editorial answer to a letter on the subject that even deals with your specific questions in the above paragraph (from issue 505):

As I explained in the Catwoman #6 letercol, only Batman stories related or directly referred to in post-Batman Year One stories are part of the official Batman canon.


Fact: assuming that pre-Crisis stories are canon is folly.



And then it ceased to exist in the creation of a singular, unified continuity that is the current DC universe. I dealt with this multiple times before, in great detail, and if you want to argue it you can do so by responding to what I wrote -- not posting in a vacuum as a means to circumvent what I've said.



You've said this before. I've answered it -- and so has the editorial page, in stark contrast to what you're still saying. Why not reply to that instead of repeating the same empty propoganda?

But, if that's the case then I guess Clark Kent's parents are dead? No? Well, how the hell is that possible?

Oh, that's right, that story...um, what was it's name? The Crisis! The story that rebooted DC's continuity.



Actually, the Crisis created the new Earth. That was its point.

Why did the Crisis exist at all from your viewpoint? If the point was to simplify the DCU -- as it's been stated over and over again it was -- how do your ideas fit with that? You've yet to answer that, like so much else.



Sure there is. Simply put, the Crisis happened to create this timeline at the expense of the old. Without the destruction of the multiverse, this universe would not exist. It was meant as partial confluence (but only in the reference realm; meaning a post-Crisis story has to make note of whatever past event for it to be a part of the character's current serialized record) with the old in its makeup, but it was a new start.

As shown by it happening multiple times, you appear to believe that what you say is "fact" so long as you simply claim it is. Pretty laughable.



Did you ever engage my points? No.

I didn't expect you to agree with me -- or to try and "win" an argument -- but I did make the mistake of expecting you to explain your stance by way of answering my questions about it. Exactly the inverse has transpired.



You're not the voice of the DCU. Is that a news flash?

I gave you an editorial quote which goes against your current stance; so it's not me you have the problem with so much as this continuity itself (seems you need to look in the mirror so far as your quote on problems with what continuity is), which means the above statement you've provided is invalid. So it appears that the DCU disagrees -- or disagreed at an earlier interval -- with your "facts" almost completely. I'm still awaiting your answer on that.

And I'm very sorry if that offends you. But, as you've made clear enough before, you have an avid dislike for me in general and feel some need to "show" me something rather than engage in a meaningful dialogue (I don't need to be talked at). I've never held any ill-will towards you, which is why I continue to wonder why you seem to have such a problem with me; it's as if you become miffed whenever I strongly disagree with an opinion you hold (whether it's the quality of recent issues or the nature of continuity).

Ironically, by avoiding my points you're only conceding them -- which I truthfully didn't expect, and I only posed and continue to pose them because your views aren't holding together for me when I consider those same percieved gaps that make up the questions I've directed at you. Which, in a circular manner, is why I asked -- not to "beat" you, but to see if there were any answers that would fill up those holes. Instead it looks more and more as if there aren't any to be had.

Disregarding stories with Batman fighting ants (ludicrous? Yes. Automatically out of continuity if pre-Crisis is still in play? No.) while laying claim that stuff like the Neal Adams run is a piece of today's continuity even though they both stem from pre-Crisis on a base factual level means that your standard for continuity (what is and what isn't) lends itself to total subjectivity -- meaning even if I acccept it, its still been defined in such a way that nobody else needs to or would come to the same conclusions (thus, no objective standard; my point). And by the way, none of these stories when reprinted ever recieve the Elseworlds label, which means by your own argument that the current continuity's Batman once hung out in the Batcave with Batwoman and Bat-Mite.

If you were just being factual, you would have addressed these issues by now. The gaps in logic are best swept under the rug from your end it appears. Ignore what you can't make work with your mindset. Kinda sad.
Will, are you even reading Infinite Crisis? Is that whole series and every thing coming out of it out of continuity? Because it quite obviously has referenced the multiple earths. They did exist. They do exist again for now.
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xx Re: Batman & the Monster Men
« Reply #20 on: Mar 17th, 2006, 11:48am »

on Mar 17th, 2006, 10:52am, LanternLight wrote:
Will, are you even reading Infinite Crisis? Is that whole series and every thing coming out of it out of continuity? Because it quite obviously has referenced the multiple earths. They did exist. They do exist again for now.


Let it die. He's right. All of us (including the creators who I quote) are wrong.
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xx Re: Batman & the Monster Men
« Reply #21 on: Jan 10th, 2010, 11:31pm »

I know this is an old thread, and I haven't read it in a while, but didn't the original Strange origin include the monster men? In the 40s, I mean?

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xx Re: Batman & the Monster Men
« Reply #22 on: Jan 11th, 2010, 05:08am »

Yes. These were a retelling of those stories.
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xx Re: Batman & the Monster Men
« Reply #23 on: Mar 18th, 2010, 05:00am »

on Mar 17th, 2006, 11:48am, snipe wrote:
Let it die. He's right. All of us (including the creators who I quote) are wrong.


Not all of us. I agree with William.

I can't believe I hadn't read this thread before. This is the most awesome thread EVER.

I never knew about Snipe's rivalry with Will! The pathos! The pathos... Think of the TheBatSquad.Net Facts I coulda typed up offa that.

Man! Awesome thread! We need more debating.
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xx Re: Batman & the Monster Men
« Reply #24 on: Jan 23rd, 2011, 05:06am »

on Mar 18th, 2010, 05:00am, midLfinger wrote:
Not all of us. I agree with William.


Well, that's kind of the point: the "creators", over time, become/became (and then again...) so confused with continuity that we're given events like the (singular? No...) Crises every decade or so.

Continuity's an albatross that inevitably ends up disagreeing with itself. Such is the nature of characters that are somehow both melodramatic soap standards (week to week, month to month, eventually becomes an epoch and beyond) that are conflated with allegory, the iconic and, (I suppose) finally, myth.
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