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TurkeyMoose

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xx Re: Batman+Superman=BS
« Reply #45 on: Mar 24th, 2016, 9:57pm »

Thanks goodness! Now I have some hope going into it. I'll be seeing it tomorrow at 3:00 P.M. Already bought my ticket. cheesy
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xx Re: Batman+Superman=BS
« Reply #46 on: Mar 25th, 2016, 03:22am »

I genuinely don't understand all the hate this is getting. It's never going to be a beloved film of mine (although I think over time, how much I like it will increase), I'd even go so far as saying I liked it, and I see no reason for the reviews to be so consistently scathing.

I'm not going to delve into plot details, but feel free to stop reading here if you haven't seen the film yet. When we agree to spoilers I will delve into implications for the future.

  • Doomsday fucking sucked. I had to get this out the way now. His CG was appalling, the constant close ups of his stupid grimacing cartoon face was embarrassing, I actually let out an audible sigh at one point. When your animation is that bad, don't keep showing it in detail. I think if they had avoided the close ups, he might have stood a chance of being actually intimidating, rather than laughable.

  • The CG itself was atrocious. There was some seriously wonky physics in the Batmobile scenes particularly. But as a massive plus point in favour of the film, it wasn't a constant CG wankfest throughout, it was used significantly more sparingly than I expected.

  • On a technical level, the Nolan films are vastly superior with their reliance on doing things practically.

  • Tonally this film was vastly superior to the Nolan films. Less overwrought dialogue and preachy exposition.

  • The symbolism was heavy handed, yes, but didn't feel like it was beating you over the head to show you how clever it was trying to be like the Nolan films did. It was a lot more organic.

  • A superhero film done in the style of a horror film? Nice. No sarcasm, I thought it was an interesting approach that paid off here.

  • The Zod/Superman battle seen from a human perspective was infinitely more engaging than it was in Piece Of Shit. There was something about following regular people while these insane events are happening around them, but never focussed on, that I really liked.

  • Superman should not be dark in a solo film, trying to force that is one of the many reasons why Piece Of Shit was such a miserable film. But Superman works very well in a dark story with a wider context, like this one.

  • I'm not sold on Affleck. His acting has considerably improved since the 1990s/2000s. But his performance was one note throughout. He did good at that one note though, and that is all his script really called for. A more convincing Batman than Bale, but Bale was a better Wayne. Lacked any of the depth or complexity Keaton brought to the role. But a promising start that could be developed in solo films. It's not a dealbreaker. It felt much closer to the character on the page than Bale ever got though. I was glad to see a no nonsense Batman rather than one constantly whining to Alfred. In a film with so much going on, we didnít need to delve any further into the mind of Batman. I donít see then one note performance as a problem here. If it continues in solo films, then it becomes a problem. As a massive point in favour of the film, they brought back the brooding and depression that was so lacking from the Nolan years.

  • They knew Affleck couldnít do the voice, so they didnít even bother, the electronic voice was stupid, but made more sense than a guy trying and failing to do the Keaton.

  • I donít like the modern version of Alfred that is more of a tough talking military type. I prefer the gentler Alfred of days gone by, like the treasured Michael Gough (obviously), or the more caring character of the comics before the Reboot. However, for the way Alfred is portrayed these days, Irons did a good job. I much preferred him to Michael Cain, I never liked him as Alfred.

  • Clark Kent still does not exist, this seriously irritates me and needs to be corrected. Iím not asking for Christopher Reeve levels of comedy, but there needs to be a clear difference in the roles as Reeve so beautifully mastered. Like with Affleck, this lack of any substance is more a problem with the script than the performance. More could have been done by both actors, but they werenít given much to work with in that respect. Again, it is not a dealbreaker in a team film like this. It is more of a problem, however, because this is the second Superman film in a row where Clark Kent has not existed, and is a worrying precedent.

  • I don't really feel like Lois Lane is like she is in the comics, perhaps it is the lack of that almost Selina Kyle like sultry sophistication. But Amy Adams is so likable in the role I don't really care. I enjoyed the film more when she was on screen.

  • Was not impressed with Gal Gadot's acting when she spoke. Extremely impressed with her all the other times, her physical acting was excellent. Looking forward to seeing more of Wonder Woman in future.

  • I still can't get over Aquaman not being blonde.

  • The construction of Cyborg was horrifying, not in a bad film making way, in an actual emotionally horrifying way. I really don't like seeing the Robocop/Source Code style remains of a body kept artificially alive when most of it is missing, it really bothers me. A very powerful introduction to the character, gives you more of an emotional investment in the character in one 30 second scene than the entirety of Batman Begins did.

  • Mercy Graves was sexy as fuck.

  • Jesse Eisenberg gave us flashes, and brief hints that we could finally see the cool and collected, and frankly chilling, serious Lex Luthor in future. You know, the one we all wanted Kevin Spacey to be. Damn Kevin, if you had just recycled your Seven performance, your Luthor would have been iconic.

  • Mercy Graves really was sexy as fuck.


- - -

In summary, I think my prediction was fairly accurate. The Nolan films were better from a technical perspective, but this was a more enjoyable experience overall. It definitely felt a lot closer to the feel of seeing the comic characters on screen than weíre used to.

So to return to where I started, I really donít understand the hate this is getting. I think if I read back every single criticism Iíve made, it falls into two categories:
  1. Look at the success of Michael Bay idiot trash films like Transformers. There are so many artistically barren films out there that are unbelievably successful because most people like films that donít require any sort of thought process to watch it. This film had enough flashy bits to appease the mainstream crowd, so I canít see why they donít like it.

  2. Personally, I think it did enough to keep a more critically thinking viewer on side. If youíre not into comics, there was enough to elevate this above idiot trash. If you are into comics, there are enough little details going on to make you smile without doing anything to offend the hardcore fanbase. Superhero fiims are not made for a hardcore comic fanbase, but this felt closest to one than anything Iíve seen for a very long time. That surprised me, in a good way.


In that respect I think the film tread the balance very well. It did enough to appease the mainstream, without doing too much to offend the hardcore; be that film enthusiasts and/or comic enthusiasts.

So yes, why is this film scoring so low exactly? If I think it is okay, surely it must be doing something right for fucks sake!
« Last Edit: Mar 25th, 2016, 05:39am by Nick » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Batman+Superman=BS
« Reply #47 on: Mar 25th, 2016, 6:32pm »

on Mar 25th, 2016, 03:22am, Nick wrote:
I genuinely don't understand all the hate this is getting. It's never going to be a beloved film of mine (although I think over time, how much I like it will increase), I'd even go so far as saying I liked it, and I see no reason for the reviews to be so consistently scathing.


Awesome! I'll go into better details on your comments later when I have more time. I may quote them into a spoiler thread. Because I kind of want to get spoilery on my reply.
So don't nuke the post!
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xx Re: Batman+Superman=BS
« Reply #48 on: Mar 25th, 2016, 8:53pm »

I miss you guys.

Came back from watching the movie. No one clapped at the end. I take it because they were exhausted

... from seeing a great movie. I have so much to say, but I want to yell "Screw You" at every person who is pissed that "it's not humorous like Marvel". Seriously, people are trolling for complaints and I'm sure I'll be reading more ridiculous ones in the coming days.

I want to mention two things right away:

1. The graffiti was distracting. I think some were Joker oriented. IIRC, one even said "Mr. J".

2. I was thrilled with the way Wonder Woman made her screen debut. Let me be clear: I am not referring to the photograph.

Bonus thing: I liked how Doomsday was used. I was especially happy when the bones started growing as he would have looked generic without them.
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xx Re: Batman+Superman=BS
« Reply #49 on: Mar 25th, 2016, 10:19pm »

Isn't it screwed up that of all the movies, this is the one that everyone agrees on?

laugh
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xx Re: Batman+Superman=BS
« Reply #50 on: Mar 26th, 2016, 12:24am »

on Mar 25th, 2016, 8:53pm, JTurner954 wrote:
but I want to yell "Screw You" at every person who is pissed that "it's not humorous like Marvel".


This had the right level of humour for me, even if I am the only person in the entire cinema who laughed at Perry White's 1938 joke. Maybe they just didn't get it? Comedy has a place, and it was certainly not here, that would have ruined it. Now Suicide Squad, that looks like the comedic tone will suit it.
« Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2016, 12:24am by Nick » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Batman+Superman=BS
« Reply #51 on: Mar 27th, 2016, 01:33am »

My initial reaction is that it was pretty good. Not really amazing but still not a bad superhero movie. I was pleased with all of the acting, so if I have any complaints it would not be about that. Henry Cavill as Superman was much improved from his wooden performance in Man of Steel. Ben Affleck also pulls off a decent Batman. And I might be in love with Wonder Woman. I have to agree with the consensus that Doomsday looked like absolute garbage, but that was expected. Jesse Eisenberg had an interesting take on Lex Luthor but I didn't hate it. So yeah, solid performances all around. Any weaknesses would be in the plot, but even that wasn't awful like the reviews make it sound. Overall, I liked it quite a bit. I may go see it again if I get a chance.
« Last Edit: Mar 27th, 2016, 01:34am by TurkeyMoose » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Batman+Superman=BS
« Reply #52 on: Mar 27th, 2016, 2:32pm »

Some time has passed and sure enough the ridiculous complaints are rolling in:

"You can't see Doomsday's penis" - Then I have the right to complain about the lack of nipples in the bathtub scene. Because we all know how essential nipples are in a Batman movie. rolleyes

"Wonder Woman wasn't in this movie enough" - Apparently they thought they were going to see Batman vvvv Superman. I try to avoid every spoiler/early word and video with movies as much as I can (a reason I don't visit here as much, no offense) to enjoy the movie more going in (either to like it or tear apart how bad a scene was). So knowing Wonder Woman (or other heroes for that matter) is in the movie beforehand, of course you're going to want to see more of them/sooner.

"Not enough action" - This is Batman v Superman, not Batman vs. Superman. It's a battle of more than just using fists. They make it sound like someone has to die.

Moving on.

"Not enough Clark Kent" - We had a Dean Cain series and Smallville which was all Clark. To get more Superman in "Man of Steel" and "Batman v Superman" makes up for it. And I'm sure we'll see even less Kent in the JL movies.

"It's too long. Marvel was better and funnier" - I am going to love to rip people apart for this by using Marvel against them. Here's one way:

I was not worried about the acting in BvS. I was worried that with all these characters in the movie, it would be a clusterfuck like a certain Marvel movie was. A marvel movie that tried so hard to add storylines (and humor, let's not forget the "hilarity") that it fell flat and to the point where they had to reboot it.

That's right. I'm talking about Spider-man 3 (which is 10 minutes shorter). Maybe Superman needed to have a dance number and smack Lois at the end? sad

BTW, I came across this article: http://screenrant.com/batman-v-superman-easter-eggs/?view=all

Pretty good stuff; I definitely missed some of these.

However, it's definitely NOT all of them. Some far I am the only person (unless someone in the comments mentions it) that spotted something.

Not really a spoiler, but feel free to edit a spoiler tag here if you think it is anyway:

In Watchman, The Comedian was the first guy to die on screen. In Batman v. Superman, Thomas Wayne was the first guy to die on screen. Jeffrey Dean Morgan played both men in each of these movies.

The haters are saying one thing than I agree 100% on:

Sucker Punch sucked.

More to come.
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xx Re: Batman+Superman=BS
« Reply #53 on: Mar 27th, 2016, 4:16pm »

Wow, glad to see that The Batsquad doesn't burn this film down to the ground, like what's happening elsewhere.

I went in without seeing any trailer beforehand, and when I came out I really needed some time to figure out what I thought about the movie.

The beginning of the movie, with the murder on Thomas and Martha Wayne got to me (it always does), and although the movie has its problems, I liked it. It was a pretty solid Batman movie, but I just don't get what they (Warner) are going for with Superman. I didn't like Man Of Steel and I feel that they still just don't know what to do with him.

One big surprise: Wonder Woman. Loved her! I would have never thought I'd be stoked for a Wonder Woman movie, but now I am.

One thing that I think is really problematic about the movie is that you never get the feeling that there is a shared history between Batman and Superman. In my mind, they are ''friends'', although they have (had) their differences and haven't gotten along all the time, they will be there for each other when shit goes down. There were moments between them in the movie where I knew I should feel something, but the emotion just wasn't there. The event of pitting Batman and Superman against each other should take place later on, when we have been given some more backstory of their relationship. When Batman saves Martha Kent and tells her he is a friend of her son, that just didn't make any sense to me.

Really strange: Superman saving Lois a number of times, even when he wasn't even nearby, but apparently unable to locate his own mother.

+ Ben Affleck/Batman
+ Gal Gadot/Wonder Woman
+ Soundtrack
+ Fight scenes (especially the one in Batman's ''dream'')

I really need to watch the movie again...
« Last Edit: Mar 27th, 2016, 4:18pm by masahikotahara » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Batman+Superman=BS
« Reply #54 on: Apr 7th, 2016, 12:26pm »

http://www.newsarama.com/28711-report-wb-s-justice-league-may-see-behind-the-scenes-changes.html

The more hate I hear for this film, the more I like it. Who'd have thought it?

I guess I was taken by surprise how much it felt like they were trying to please the hardcore comic crowd and not just gun for the mainstream. Didn't think that would happen anytime soon.

I still think they balanced hardcore/mainstream well enough that I still don't understand the hate. This film had me briefly excited for the future. Such negative reaction for something actually decent has me worried for the inevitable studio interference that will no doubt ruin it all again.

If Batman Returns was fully hardcore (for both comic and/or film enthusiasts), and the Nolan Trilogy fully mainstream, this hit that very tricky middle ground of appealing to both, but bizarrely seems to have both groups hating it (obviously not us, but seemingly everywhere else). I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that the majority opinion defies logic.

Obviously I recognise a lot wrong with the film, but overall the good certainly outweighed the bad.
« Last Edit: Apr 7th, 2016, 12:33pm by Nick » User IP Logged

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« Reply #55 on: Apr 10th, 2016, 11:15am »

Last Friday I went to see Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. I really liked the movie for the most part.

First and foremost, I liked the portrayals of the DC Trinity. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman all had great screen presence, I feel. While I emphasise with the lack of a clearly defined (and present) Clark Kent, I really did like the superhero sides of the characters. Bruce Wayne and Diana Prince felt good to me as well. Especially with the acclaim Nolan's trilogy has gathered, I feel Ben Affleck followed Bale admirably.

Additionally, I agree with Nick's sentiment: seeing the superhero fights, their world thrust upon the regular human world, was refreshing.

I really dug that Batman killed. He blew up cars, dragged cars with passengers in them behind the Batmobile probably killing them in the process, shot people (and not only in the apocalyptic Darkseid future scene), and he stood at the cusp of killing Superman. I really dug all of that.

The way Wonder Woman was introduced worked for me as well. I think Gal Gadot looked badass, in and out of costume.

My biggest gripes with the movie came down to the villains (excluding Batman) and how some sections felt terribly rushed. I did not like Lex Luthor's portrayal. He came across too much like a dysfunctional psychopath, less of a criminal genius/mastermind. He had none of his cool he has in the comics. This seems like a combination of miscasting and misdirecting. It reminded me of The Riddler and Two-Face from Batman Forever, two of the best Joker performances ever captured on camera!

Doomsday did nothing for me either. There was no build-up and the fight was over way too quickly to reach a climax. How horrible is Doomsday? You did not get a scope of that from the movie. There he just seems a big, powerful monster. In the comics you know what kind of unstoppable, creature of mass destruction it is. And then it was over before it even got going all thanks to a Kryptonian spear tip that didn't even have time to sink to the bottom of whatever it was.
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xx Re: Batman+Superman=BS
« Reply #56 on: Apr 10th, 2016, 1:53pm »

on Apr 10th, 2016, 11:15am, TheMidnighter wrote:
It reminded me of The Riddler and Two-Face from Batman Forever, two of the best Joker performances ever captured on camera!


I agree 100%, I've been saying that since 1995! cheesy
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« Reply #57 on: Apr 19th, 2016, 05:54am »

I'm going to try and weigh in on BVS.

Not being too much of a Supes fan I wasn't too sure what to expect. I know the basics and who's who, but haven't watched much on screen of Superman at all !

Firstly I really liked the opening city scene. I know the bit with Bruce running toward the falling building has been getting a lot of hate, but I think ' come on he's Batman, of course he'll act the hero ! Even without his cowl'. I think it's great that they showed Bruce the man as a hero, you don't need the costume to be heroic.

I was not keen on Lois. She just didn't look, act or sound right too me. Maybe because Ms Adams was so good as Margaret Keane in 'Big Eyes', she just seems to meek and mild for Lois.

I've got a lot of time for Jeremy Irons as Alfred, it's a shame there was not much screen time between him and Bruce as I feel their relationship could really hold up and develop well over time. The way he delivered some of his lines were spot on when I look back at 'The Dark Knight Returns'. After 'bloody' Michael Cain I thought he was great.

I also liked the batmobile, again it's no 89' or returns model, but its far better then the batmatank !

I really struggled with Lex. I felt like he was some second rate Ledger-Joker, not how I imagined him to be at all. Far too much muttering, mumbling and general jabbering for me.

The only point at which I actually cringed was when wonder woman appeared at the doomsday battle. The first time they used the little 'wonder riff' was ok, the next time they cut to her..... same riff..... then again, and again..... OK ! I get it , sexy warrior woman is here ! please stop repeating that little jingle !!!!

Overall I enjoyed the movie, Ben Affleck seems to have a lot more to offer and he looks great as Bruce and as Bats ( compared to Bale, who I refer to as looking like Batman on Heroin) . I think both Clark and Superman were a bit one note and there was so much back story that you needed to know prior to going in, but at 2 and a half hours already I can see why the left so much out. I just feel they fitted in too much story / too many baddies / elements at the cost of a deeper story overall. It feels a bit superficial, but I am hoping that solo films and / or Justice league will develop these characters and their relationships.

Now.....BRING ON THE SUICIDE SQUAD !
« Last Edit: Apr 19th, 2016, 08:07am by Delly1984 » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Batman+Superman=BS
« Reply #58 on: May 2nd, 2016, 11:50am »

Another tiresome chapter of 21st Century racism: #KeepIrisBlack http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-36165290

Wait... What?! She wasn't even black to start with.

As we've discussed too much previously, none of us care about the races of characters as long as they're written well and not created to fulfil some 'diversity quota' (Miles Morales I'm looking at you). What we don't tend to like is race changing existing characters, irrelevant of what they were before and what they're being turned into.

Occasionally it can come across without any issues, (Laurence Fishburne was a great Perry White), but most often they give the character a personality transplant betraying the very character they're allegedly playing/writing (Mehcad Brooks as Jocky Olsen). Obviously if it is clearly an original character, give them an original name.

Personally I think it is more excusable in live action. Cast whoever portrays the character best, simple as that. Laurence Fishburne played Perry White well, nobody said otherwise. If they are playing the character all wrong (case in point, Jocky Olsen), there is a problem there. It is more concerning when a print character has a race change (like the Reboot West family), that screams 'diversity quota' laziness and pandering to a Social Justice Warrior crowd when an original character could have been organically created (example, Michael Lane made sense as a different Azrael, he was well written, and his race wasn't part of the marketing, everything was good, no Miles Morales marketing full of socio-economic and racial stereotyping 'buzzwords' here).

What baffles me most is the ignorant bleating about 'whitewashing'. I don't think the term really applies when discussing the possibility of a white character being played by a white actress. It shouldn't even be an issue that an actress might be the same goddamn race as the character is supposed to be, but it is, and that's a very sad thing. But I shouldn't be surprised that it's an issue, people are idiots.

*sigh*

EDIT - The link at the end of the article; people being upset by a white actress playing a character who I have been led to believe is supposed to be Japanese. If that is correct, at least that outcry actually makes sense! As much as I like Scarlett Johansson, if the character is supposed to be Japanese, so should the actress. I remember a recently race changed Mercy Graves being sexy as fuck wink
« Last Edit: May 2nd, 2016, 12:20pm by Nick » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Batman+Superman=BS
« Reply #59 on: Aug 5th, 2016, 9:00pm »

Should there be a new thread for Suicide Squad discussion?
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