Board Logo
« Continuity Errors »

Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Nov 20th, 2017, 12:14pm



« Previous Topic | Next Topic »
Pages: 1  Notify Send Topic Print
 thread  Author  Topic: Continuity Errors  (Read 2850 times)
TurkeyMoose

ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 211
xx Continuity Errors
« Thread started on: May 17th, 2009, 4:25pm »

I know I'm not the only person that gets frustrated when DC can't keep their continuity straight. But I think I get a little more angry than most. We all know that there are flaws everywhere throughout DC's continuity. I think we should have a thread here where we can vent our frustrations about various continuity errors in the DCU. I just found a major one and I need to vent, so I'll start the thread with this. I recently purchased the Superman: Man of Steel Vol. 3-6 TPBs. I already had Vol. 1 and 2. Anyway, I've always felt that it was firmly established that Superman and Batman discovered each others identities early on while Dick Grayson was Robin. This has been suggested by several sources, such as Batman & Superman: World's Finest #6, Nightwing: Year One, and Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman: Trinity, (for those of us who like to think of that as in continuity). However, it seems that in Superman's continuity, it's totally different and they didn't learn each others identities until some time while Jason Todd was Robin. In Adventures of Superman #440, they learn each others identity. I've had that single issue for a while now and there was nothing in it that seemed out of place. Robin is not in it, only mentioned, and I figured they were just talking about Dick Grayson. I've always kept that important issue during Dick's years as Robin. But after buying the Man of Steel TPBs, I've realized that AOS #440 happens after those trades, in which Superman encounters the post- Judas Contract Teen Titans (i.e. Jericho was there), and Batman and Robin (Jason Todd). Everything in those TPBs completely negates the other stories in which they already know each others identities during Dick's tenure as Robin. So I don't know what to do now about placing these Superman TPBs on the shelf. They obviously cannot coexist with other stories, so I might just have to keep them out of continuity. At this point I could go off on a tangent about how this is all the fault of the Crisis on Infinite Earths, and is yet another reason how the writers and editors massively conflicted continuity by not thinking over the details before publishing that story, but I've said enough so I'll stop ranting now. Most people probably don't care that much anyway as long as the stories are good. I'm just one of these people who thinks that if a story strongly conflicts with accepted continuity then it is inherently bad.
User IP Logged

My ongoing definitive DC Universe timeline
snipe
Administrator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Master Dick


Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 1956
xx Re: Continuity Errors
« Reply #1 on: May 17th, 2009, 6:37pm »

Good topic. Dick had to have known Superman as Robin - he took the name "Nightwing" from Kryptonian legend...told to him by Superman.
Though I don't have any specifics at the moment, several of the 'year one' era Batman stories seem to flip-flop on Gordon's rank. You'll have one where he's Commissioner, then one that's obviously later that shows him as Lt. or Captain.
Another that we've mentioned recently is Batman / Scarecrow: Year One vs. the Year One Annual he debuted in.
« Last Edit: May 17th, 2009, 6:39pm by snipe » User IP Logged

TurkeyMoose

ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 211
xx Re: Continuity Errors
« Reply #2 on: May 18th, 2009, 01:15am »

Yeah, Dick definitely had to know Superman was Clark Kent, because it's in Nightwing: Year One that Dick goes to Metropolis and talks to Clark about Bruce firing him, and Superman tells him the Kryptonian legend of Nightwing, and it's very clear that they know each other. But these damn Superman stories make it seem otherwise, because it's obviously after Dick has become Nightwing, yet Superman and Batman don't know each others secret identities yet, not until AOS #440, and Dick wouldn't have known Superman was Clark before Bruce did. So it just doesn't fit, and there's really no way to justify it at all. Also, chapter 6 of Batman & Superman: World's Finest shows Dick as Robin, and the dialogue of that issue clearly shows that they all know each other's civilian identities.

Yeah, the thing with Gordon's rank is also annoying. In Dark Victory he's recently been promoted to Commissioner, then later in Robin: Year One, and even as late as Batgirl: Year One, he's only Captain. However, that is slightly less frustrating than the thing with Bruce and Clark not knowing each other's identities when they should. That's much more difficult to bypass. The thing with Gordon's rank can be explained with a bit of suspension-of-disbelief. You can just say that he was demoted for some reason, then later promoted again. This reminds me of another one. In the first chapter of the five part Turning Points story, Gordon's wife leaves him, but then she's with him again all the way through Dark Victory. I've always justified this by simply thinking that she came back to him shortly after that first chapter of Turning Points, and then left him again at some point after Dark Victory.

Sometimes, DC redeems certain stories by explaining things. For years, I was pissed off about how Dark Victory shows Tony Zucco die, and it's mentioned in Robin: Year One, but years later in Batman: Year Three, Zucco is alive and just getting out of prison. However, in the Nightwing: Year One TPB, they have a "brief history of Dick Grayson" or something, and it explains that Dick only thought Zucco had died, but he really went to prison. I was so happy when they did that, because that's how I always thought of it anyway, DC just made it official.

I saw the other thread about Scarecrow: Year One and the annual story. This has bothered me as well. I personally don't like Scarecrow: Year One at all, and would prefer to not accept it as being in continuity at all, except for one scene that makes up for everything bad about it. I love the scene where Batman and Robin go to that black guy's apartment, and the guy is so hilarious because he's ridiculously stereotypical, and he keeps getting Robin's name wrong, first calling him "the Pigeon", then "Finch". I don't know why, but I laughed so hard the first time I read that. So even though the story and art in that story are horrendous, I feel like I must keep it in continuity because of that one scene, haha. I just use the explanation you use, Snipe, about Scarecrow's fear gas making people forget their previous encounters. It's obviously a very big stretch, but it sort of works.

Dude, I type way too much sometimes.
User IP Logged

My ongoing definitive DC Universe timeline
tua34183

ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM


Posts: 8
xx Re: Continuity Errors
« Reply #3 on: Sep 15th, 2009, 10:29pm »

check out http://therealbatmanchronoproject.blogspot.com/2009_08_01_archive.html at http://therealbatmanchronoproject.blogspot.com/2009_08_01_archive.html... answers A LOT of questions
User IP Logged

TheMidnighter

ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 1227
xx Re: Continuity Errors
« Reply #4 on: Sep 16th, 2009, 02:44am »

on Sep 15th, 2009, 10:29pm, tua34183 wrote:
check out http://therealbatmanchronoproject.blogspot.com/2009_08_01_archive.html at http://therealbatmanchronoproject.blogspot.com/2009_08_01_archive.html... answers A LOT of questions

On the one hand, I do appreciate new posts when I log in.
On the other, I would also appreciate content instead of plugs for a website.
User IP Logged

"One among you will shortly perish."

My free music
TurkeyMoose

ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 211
xx Re: Continuity Errors
« Reply #5 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:56am »

Let's talk about some stuff. I've been reading a lot of the recent Batman stuff lately, and it's come to my attention that Tim Drake is only 17. What? How is this so? Let's take a walk down memory lane and we shall see that Tim Drake could not possibly be only 17.

I think it's firmly established that Batman was by himself for about 2 years before the arrival of Dick Grayson. Then, I like to say Dick was Robin for 5 years. Some sources say 6 or 7, but considering that nothing relevent happened in those years, I'd say 5 is pretty generous. Moving on, Jason Todd was probably Robin for only about 1 year. So let's add this up. Jason dies at the point in time where Bruce had been Batman for about 8 years. I think it's fair to estimate that maybe 2 months pass between Jason's death and the arrival of Tim Drake, then maybe another 4 months of training before he officially becomes Robin, so let's just say Tim becomes Robin around Batman's 8.5 year mark. Now with that said, let's get to the main point of this.

After Tim becomes Robin, it's maybe 6 months until Knightfall (9 years since Bruce became Batman). I think that whole ordeal, Prodigal and all, is over after about 6 months (9.5 years). Another 6 months passes before Contagion and Legacy (10 years), then another 6 months until the earthquake (10.5 years). Gotham City is rebuilt a year later (11.5 years). Then it's maybe 3 months until Officer Down (11.75 years), and another 3 months until Murderer (12 years). The Murderer and Fugitive storyline was supposed to be a 6 month fiasco (12.5 years). I'd say Hush is another 3 months later (12.75 years), and War Games has got to be about 6 months after that (13.25 years). Infinite Crisis is probably another 6 months later (13.75 years). Then we jump ahead a year after the Crisis (14.75 years). And I'd say it's been about 9 months since then, so right now we are about about 15.5 years since Bruce Wayne became Batman. Now, we previously established that Tim became Robin at around 8.5 years, so Tim has been Robin for 7 years. I refuse to accept that he could have been 10 years old when he became Robin. 13 is the youngest age I'm willing to accept. So that means Tim would have to be at least 20 by now, probably even older. So why the hell is he still in high school, and only 17? I know everybody has their own way of looking at continuity, but in this case it seems that any way you look at it this doesn't make sense. DC needs to come up with a system to accurately monitor the passage of comic book time over the course of many years of real life time.

I suppose I'm done venting. Good day.
User IP Logged

My ongoing definitive DC Universe timeline
Nick

ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 754
xx Re: Continuity Errors
« Reply #6 on: Oct 2nd, 2009, 1:11pm »

Well as of the Red Robin series Tim is about 18/19 and is done with high school, Steph is clearly 18 as she has just started college or university or wherever she's at which helps place his age while he's on walkabout.

Now where it gets a bit odd for me is how Gordon and Batman both regularly mention during No Man's Land that it is 10 years since Batman first arrived; now with Dick, Jason, and Tim all being Robin that's a lot to pack into 10 years don't you think?!

But going back to Tim, he's really weird in himself. His appearance in A Lonely Place Of Dying suggests he is only about 8-10 years old judging by his size and general annoyance. But by Knightfall he seems to be a pretty down to earth 14-15 year old (although I think he was intended to be younger than that). Then of course Bill Willingham joined Robin just before War Games and suddenly he was being written and drawn as a whiny immature child who was somehow in high school despite being 4 years old. Oh, and let us not forget the Dustin Nguyen small child Tim Drake making his re-appearence in The Heart Of Hush arc. embarassed Great editorial DC have got going on!

Just throwing out a guess here, but I'm thinking Tim was supposed to be about 10-11 during A Lonely Place Of Dying, what age he actually became Robin I couldn't say, but he's 18-19 now. But if No Mans Land was supposed to be Year 10, then Tim must have become Robin probably around Year 8 perhaps? And If Dick left Robin at 16, we could be generous and say he was Robin for four years which would leave time for Jason and Tim's fist appearence in between.

Note - The rough guesses above will probably change as I think about it more!
« Last Edit: Oct 2nd, 2009, 1:16pm by Nick » User IP Logged

midLfinger

ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

"I was mumbling to myself like the Joker in Dark Knight, "C'mon, hit me!" I had a Tommy gun in my right hand & I was firing at the moon. Bapapap!"

YIM YIM AIM
Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 735
xx Re: Continuity Errors
« Reply #7 on: Oct 10th, 2009, 05:20am »

on Oct 2nd, 2009, 08:56am, TurkeyMoose wrote:
DC needs to come up with a system to accurately monitor the passage of comic book time over the course of many years of real life time.


They already did. They're called Crisis. DC doesn't keep track of s***. They just wipe out history so they can sell you the characters' origin stories all over again.

Marvel's so pathetic that they kept track of Spider-Man but wiped out his history because the professional writers that work for comics can't seem to make stories about a married guy interesting.

The whole history thing is something that, I'm sure, made most of us comic fans to begin with. It feels good when your somewhere where people are discussing a certain hero and you feel you know more history on him/her than the others in the room. Right? Except today, you're, like, "well, Batman and Superman were friends but that was before history changed and... Actually, I think it was an alternate reality... Or it could be two merged realities and in one he was married to Catwoman... but now she was a hooker... Unless a certain guy is writing the story because he doesn't like that she was a hooker... So Batman and Superman aren't friends but they're not enemies but really, because of a story called Public Enemies, they consider each other best friends but don't like to show it."

TheBatSquad Fact #20: Snipe's middle name is Francis.
User IP Logged

"baby gon hyo & chu look like the bears from star wars"

-- My wife on kittenwar.com (08/30/2005, 12:38:22 AM)

User Image

midLfinger on Twitter!
TurkeyMoose

ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 211
xx Re: Continuity Errors
« Reply #8 on: Jan 5th, 2011, 3:12pm »

I've just been continuing my chronological read-through of the DC Universe, and I've come across "Batman: Faces". I had this placed somewhere between Long Halloween and Dark Victory, since Two-Face is in it but it appears to be before Robin debuts. However, I read the first chapter, and it starts with Two-Face escaping from Arkham, then it's suddenly two years later and Two-Face has been missing all that time. This is impossible. That length of time couldn't have passed between Long Halloween and Dark Victory. Does this story fit anywhere into continuity? Should I just discard it completely and put it my non-continuity section?
« Last Edit: Jan 6th, 2011, 07:06am by TurkeyMoose » User IP Logged

My ongoing definitive DC Universe timeline
snipe
Administrator
ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar

Master Dick


Homepage PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 1956
xx Re: Continuity Errors
« Reply #9 on: Jan 6th, 2011, 05:03am »

on Jan 5th, 2011, 3:12pm, TurkeyMoose wrote:
Does this story fit anywhere into continuity? Should I just discard it completely and put it my non-continuity section?


It was LotDK, which is one of those "not *meant* to be in continuity" situations. Sounds like bad writing to me. Would Batman let someone like him stay loose that long?
On the other hand, it was written before TLH / DV.
User IP Logged

TurkeyMoose

ImageImageImageImageImage


member is offline

Avatar




PM

Gender: Male
Posts: 211
xx Re: Continuity Errors
« Reply #10 on: Jun 3rd, 2013, 1:31pm »

Considering that just about nothing prior to Flashpoint really fits into continuity anymore, I guess this doesn't really matter now, but I just came across a big continuity discrepancy that I'm not sure how to explain.

It's been established that Black Canary's torture in Green Arrow: The Longbow Hunters was the cause of her losing her canary cry ability. However, for some time after that she continues to appear in the Justice League International series and use her canary cry like nothing ever happened. I know Mike Grell liked to keep his Green Arrow series separate from the rest of the DC Universe, but everyone else still considers his series canon whether he likes it or not, except for that one detail. I'm not sure how to deal with this from a continuity standpoint. Perhaps The Longbow Hunters needs to be placed later in continuity than at the time it was published. I'm not sure at what point Black Canary leave the JLI since I haven't gotten that far yet, but it seems like The Longbow Hunters can't happen until after that.

I'm not sure what I'll do about it yet. I'll leave it alone for now and just keep reading, but if I see a way to make it work I might have to do a little bit of re-ordering in my chronological reading list.
User IP Logged

My ongoing definitive DC Universe timeline
Pages: 1  Notify Send Topic Print
« Previous Topic | Next Topic »

Donate $6.99 for 50,000 Ad-Free Pageviews!

| Conforums Support |

This forum powered for FREE by Conforums ©
Sign up for your own Free Message Board today!
Terms of Service | Privacy Policy | Conforums Support | Parental Controls