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TheMidnighter

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xx X-Men (monthly/TPB's/everything else)
« Thread started on: Sep 22nd, 2005, 07:55am »

Anyone reading X-Men? The new monthly issues, old trades, old monthlies or new trades? Whatever it is, talk about it here.

I, for one, am reading most of it (although I have a lot to catch up on...) and am currently most excited about the X-Men title by Milligan. Claremonts's Uncanny X-Men doesn't do anything for me and Whedon's Astonishing is okay but - and this is my opinion, not a fact - I think it's not as good as everyone says it is.

Want to talk about classic arcs? Dark Phoenix Saga? Mutant Massacre? The Twelve arc of some years ago? Operation: Zero Tolerance (which I quiet liked)? Onslaught (same here)? Throw me some subjects and we can discuss it.
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xx Re: X-Men (monthly/TPB's/everything else)
« Reply #1 on: Sep 22nd, 2005, 3:39pm »

X-Men stories confuse the hell out of me. huh
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xx Re: X-Men (monthly/TPB's/everything else)
« Reply #2 on: Sep 23rd, 2005, 12:17pm »

So? Practice makes perfect. You have to start somewhere (well, you don't have to, but you get what I mean). I did, and so did everyone else.

I tried to read Crisis on Infinite Earths when I didn't even know there were mutliple Flash's, Green Lantern's and what the hell GL's power was anyway.


I've just read Astonishing X-Men #12. It was enjoyable, but Joss Whedon just doesn't do it for me. It seems to me as if Whedon thinks that a story is good when it's a sequel to a story that was good (e.g., Morrison's New X-Men run). Greg Pak hasn't done anything that I've seen that was a story that didn't follow up on one of comic's good moments (Phoenix: Endsong took from Morrison's New X-Men on almost all points and 1602: New World is the sequel on Gaiman's 1602). Whedon does the same, I think. Her he is now, with a new Hellfire Club where we see, of course, Sebastian Shaw and characters who appear to be the following:
[Cassandra Nova, who, at the end of the Cassandra Nova storyline got tutored by Xavier and Grey and reappeared - although it wasn't made obvious it was, however, noticable - as Ernst, the young mutant girl with an old-looking face. This one is a Morrison-character];
[We also see 'Negasonic Teenage Warhead' whose real name is Ellie Phimister. She died during the raid of the mega-Sentinal in New X-Men #115. She is, or rather, was, a Morrison-character as well'].
I do not know which character the hooded one is, but I'm fairly disappointed in this writer who seems only to stretch his storylines in 6 parters when they could've easily be done in 4 or perhaps in 3 parts who, again, to me, seems to have little inspiration and needs good concepts from other, capable writers to milkand who also seems to have this urge to make every character say 'cool', funny and hip one or two 'worders'. This probably what he did on Buffy and Angel and whatnot and it probably worked there, but I don't like my X-Men to cite Buffy lines that teenage boys and girls yell "oh yeah" and "in yo face!" to.

As you might've noticed, I'm not Whedon's biggest fan. I do, however, think his run isn't bad and I do enjoy reading it. I just don't get these mindless fanboys that praise this writer higher than Claremont (his 80's stuff together with Byrne and Austin, not his current stuff) and Morrison when, to me, it's so obvious that he isn't that capable at all.

Astonishing X-Men's main attraction are still Cassaday's pencils.

Astonishing X-Men #12: 7/10
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xx Re: X-Men (monthly/TPB's/everything else)
« Reply #3 on: Sep 23rd, 2005, 5:13pm »

All that time travel, Cable,Phoenix, Jean being dead, Jean not being dead, characters being in seperate dimensions, characters being the future sons of characters who were in seperate dimensions who were themselves the sons of Eskimos...Ok, that last one was an exaggeration, but you get my point. The X-universe is all confusing, especially the stuff from the nineties.
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xx I don't see it
« Reply #4 on: Sep 23rd, 2005, 5:22pm »

Hm, I don't want to make this into a "do not" - "do too!" thread, but I just don't see how this can be difficult? At least not more difficult than DC continuity or any other continuity. I got this stuff as a kid and it's just what you;ve grown up with, I guess.
Of all your examples, I do not see anything confusing -- you're just dropping some names (Cable, Phoenix - Green Arrow, Hawkman) and stating things that happen all the time in comics (timetravel, characters that get revived from death: Jean - Hal).

If the stuff from the nineties is confusing, then don't start there. To me it isn't confusing. Maybe because I have already some knowledge about these characters, a foundation. Start with a classic tradepaperback like Claremont/Byrne's The Dark Phoenix Saga. That's some classic comichistory, right there.

Again, I don't want to go into this too deep, but there's really, from my point of view, nothing that you can find difficult to get.

But hey, if you don't want it, then you just don't so don't sweat it. I'm not being pushy. I just don't want people to get the wrong ( wink ) idea that you cannot get into the X-Men titles.

And there's always Ultimate X-Men, free of years of continuity.
(I do not find continuity bothering. Case in point: I never heard about it until I went on these boards and saw all these users ask snipe if this issues or that TPB was in continuity or out.
Batman is more confusing: books exist, but the stories inside them do not.)
« Last Edit: Sep 23rd, 2005, 5:26pm by TheMidnighter » User IP Logged

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xx Re: X-Men (monthly/TPB's/everything else)
« Reply #5 on: Sep 23rd, 2005, 5:39pm »

Yes well I find UXM to be signficantly less brain boggling. I grew up around Liefeld heavy nineties X-Men, so maybe you can understand why I like to distance myself from the books.
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xx diagnosis?
« Reply #6 on: Sep 23rd, 2005, 6:19pm »

Aiii.............
Sorry, my friend. The Liefeld-syndrome... Many people suffer from it. I fear there is no clear treatment of that particular case. I, myself, am a survivor but I do not know whether to call it an Act of Grace or a Miracle of Science.

I have to admit that he was one of my favored artists during Heroes Reborn.
But then, I got the virus:
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This is just horrible, horrible stuff.

I'd like to think I'm a stronger person and also immune now...
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xx Re: X-Men (monthly/TPB's/everything else)
« Reply #7 on: Sep 23rd, 2005, 7:52pm »

Last off topic post, I swear

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OK, let's ignore the obvious ugly of Liefelds art for a second, shall we? I'd like to point out how many goddamn POUCHES he decided to put on those characters. Can you count how many there are? No, you can't, that's how many fucking pouches there are.
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xx Re: X-Men (monthly/TPB's/everything else)
« Reply #8 on: Sep 23rd, 2005, 10:39pm »

the vast majority of X titles recently have been utter shit!!! i dont even know why i still waste my money on them. milligans work is ridiculously terrible! clairmont needs to realize that the cheap and cheezy tactics used in 70's storytelling are now...well, cheap and cheezy. ultimate x-men has been decent at best. but i do dig astonishing quite a bit. the first arc was incredible...the second are, while not as good, is still a very worthwhile read.
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xx Re: X-Men (monthly/TPB's/everything else)
« Reply #9 on: Sep 28th, 2005, 1:25pm »

Somebody really ought to do a summary of every issue and review it, too, for those of us who, y'know, don't have the monetary means to go out and buy a single one.

cry I was so looking forward to House of M.
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xx Re: X-Men (monthly/TPB's/everything else)
« Reply #10 on: Sep 29th, 2005, 02:11am »

I'll try to do it, mid. I know I said so before as well, but I will.
Which issues would you like to know about. I can do House of M as well? They haven't all been released yet, but the ones I have I can summarize.
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xx Re: X-Men (monthly/TPB's/everything else)
« Reply #11 on: Sep 29th, 2005, 02:22am »

::Salivates::

Mmmmm... House of M...

Please...

...thank you...
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xx partential home
« Reply #12 on: Sep 29th, 2005, 02:24am »

When I'm at my parents' home this weekend, I'll do it.
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xx Re: X-Men (monthly/TPB's/everything else)
« Reply #13 on: Sep 30th, 2005, 7:05pm »

Will they be chock full of spoilers? Ooo... I hope, I hope!
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xx Re: X-Men (monthly/TPB's/everything else)
« Reply #14 on: Jan 4th, 2007, 8:00pm »

Yes, long post.


Uncanny X-Men #444-#447
The End of History


Story
The Fury – some sort of sentient robot of destruction – is trying to annihilate Captain Britain, with whom he has a grudge or something. The X-Men happen to stumble into The Fury, and they hit it off. The Fury manages to take over Sage, who has a computer-like brain, and thus, the fight is carried on in Britain as well as in the Xavier Mansion.

Verdict
This is a bad storyarc: Claremont’s days are not the glory days of old. He has some cool ideas, but the execution is worthless –I don’t know about you, but I can’t stand the X-Men starting a fight during a baseball game, just like always. I thought these people were suppossed to have grown over the years, but in Claremont’s hands they evidently have not. And neither has he, apparantly. I like Alan Davis’ art, as always, but it’s certainly not enough to entertain me.

4/10


Uncanny X-Men #448-#449
Guess who’s back in town?


Story
The very obiously looming Viper kidnaps the X-Men because she has a score to settle with the X-Men, Sage in particular. She has bought Arcade’s Murderworld off eBay (great hip, modern touch there, Claremont) and instead of killing everyone – or, at least, Sage – when they were asleep, she let’s them go into Murderworld to save the Queen of England she kidnapped, and then tries to murder them. Will the X-Men survive this ordeal? Of course they will.

Verdict
This thing sucks even harder than the previous arc. Claremont is crap and Coipel’s pencils look bad. Lines where the X-Men are gassed, then wake up and four X-Men say four different things (“what--?” “who--?” “where--?” “how--?”) suck – stuff like that doesn’t happen. I like my comics realistic. The motivation of Viper to use Murderworld is nowhere to be found. The cliffhanger where Sage is shot was, as expected, anticlimactic.
And that’s not even the most striking example of Claremont’s fading skills: he actually manages to not distinguish between characters in ways of speaking. In #448, Sage says “even money says...” and in #449, Bishop uses the exact same line. Huh?

Ugh, I look forward to the day I’ll be able to start Brubaker’s run which is going on right now.
3/10


Uncanny X-Men #450 - #451
The Cruelest Cut


Story
When a gang of mutanthaters tries to kill daughter of mob boss Parisi, the gang is killed by a person with retractable adamantium claws, indicating Wolverine as the murderer. The girl, Jane Parisi, is nowhere to be found. Of course, Wolverine has nothing to do with the crime, but the X-Men start to investigate anyway. Turns out there’s a girl that has two claws in the palms of her hand and one in each of her feet: X-23. X-23 was made by the Weapon X program and her only objective is to kill Weapon X.

Verdict
This two-parter was a standard story, but it was OK. Davis’ art is still the best of the series but this story was well-constructed and the execution was sufficient.

6-/10


Uncanny X-Men #452-#454
Chasing Hellfire


Story
Sage has accepted an invitation from Sebastian Shaw to renew the Hellfire Club. Has she betrayed the X-Men? The rest of the team investigates, and Emma Frost –who is no stranger to the Hellfire Club herself- lends a helping hand. Some new people have taken positions within the hierarchy (a new white queen and a new black king) and there’s one person waiting to overthrow the entire Hellfire Club and take over. An old familiar face.

Verdict
This story wasn’t bad, but wasn’t good either. I don’t know what to make of it. It’s cool to see the Hellfire Club again, and the surprise villain was cool but there were also some big let-downs in this story: the Emma/Rachel fight had no point, the multi-layered optic disguise of the team in the beginning (first as sewage workers, then civilian clothes, then uniforms – huh?), it was never really in doubt Sage would betray the X-Men because Claremont was laying it too thick on the reader to begin with.

OK.
6/10


X-Men #166-#170
Golgotha


Story
The X-Men travel to Antartica to answer a distress call from a bunch of mutants that were trying to get away from it all. It appears that this group has been so terrified by something that the once that have not died have gone insane, others have murdered each other and some have killed themselves. A striking example of the fear they were in is the fact that one ripped his own heart out.
It turns out this fear is brought up by a psychic alien being called Golgotha. It taps into sentient beings’ fears, feeds off it which makes them act weird and go insane, and then continues his cycle.
And the X-Men must find a way to stop the creature.

Verdict
I have mixed feelings about this first arc of Milligan.

Pros.
The story involves an interesting concept: an enemy that not only feeds on your fears, but draws them out and gets them into the open, which not only makes the X-Men see the fears teammembers have, but also lets the reader know them. It provides a lot of possible character development.
The Golgotha is also a cool character in what it really turns out to be in the physical sense.

Cons.
While the concept is cool and it provides a lot of possibilites, it doesn’t feel as if a lot is being done with this. The story seems to go everywhere and nowhere – what’s exactly happening? – and it’s most obvious at the end where you (or, at least, I) had no idea what actually happened and why it was so important for the X-Men.

Larroca’s art is nice as usual, but the colouring leaves a lot to be desired – I’m no fan of the ‘texture’ feel the colouring has.

Still, a very decent start.
7½/10


Uncanny X-Men #455-#459
World’s End


Story
At the beginning of the story, Psylocke – long thought to be dead, killed in X-treme X-Men a couple of years ago – appears to be alive, as she manifests at her dying location in Spain. She’s picked up by the X-Men, but they do not trust her completely yet.
In the meantime, Wolverine was called in by an old friend – she is a paleontologist – and the two are attacked by the Hauk’ka, a race evolved from dinosaurs (if I’m right in my English), and only X-23 gets away to send a distresssignal from the X-Jet. The other X-Men (including Psylocke) arrive and then things get complicated: Rachel’s mind is overtook by the Hauk’ka, making her belief she’s one of them (which causes her unconscious to use her telekinesis to alter her DNA, turning her into one of the Hauk’ka); the other X-Men (except for Psylocke and X-23) are captured; and the Hauk’ka have a plan to make the human race extinct.
But luckily, the X-Men get help from Savage Land inhabitants the likes of Ka-Zar and – Brainchild?

Verdict
Great arc. Seriously. Claremont & Davis have given the best Uncanny X-Men arc I’ve read this holiday (which is from #444 on). Davis’ art is beautiful, just like always, but now it’s accompanying a intriguing story. Sure, it’s nothing groundbreaking and, at the end of the day, has no impact whatsoever on the X-Men, but it’s decent. From the first pages onwards, the writing on this arc feels different – it feels as if Claremont really knows Psylocke and can make her work. I liked the way he handled her and how he wrote her. I am also very interested in seeing how Betsy was affected when she was gone.

Very nice.
7.5/10
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