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Nick

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xx Justice League
« Thread started on: Nov 9th, 2017, 12:00pm »

A week to go, and unlike BvS we haven't been discussing this at length, perhaps a good indicator of our excitement levels? I'm looking forward to it, but have a few concerns:

  • The BvS backlash - I am concerned about studio interference to erase the seriousness and the depth and lighten and simplify into just another MCU film.

  • Joss Whedon - Now I am highly concerned. Reshoots aren't an issue, but this man has me worried, very worried. I don't know what the opinion is of him here, but I hate his writing. Every character he writes in every project he does acts like a sarcastic teenager. Sometimes it feels like every single line is a bad joke. That's fine in Buffy The Vampire Slayer when they are (supposed to be) teenagers, but The Avengers was a fucking embarrassment with the endless cringeworthy dialogue and completely hollow story with pantomime villains. I am truly worried that scenes are going to be ruined by constant sprinkles of Whedon-isms. Wonder Woman at least felt like the humour was organic rather than the smug try-hard Whedon style.

  • Trailers suggest the CG wankfest that BvS mercifully steered away from much more than expected (lame Doomsday aside). Could just be over-representation in trailers to appeal to the big action demographic though. I'm more concerned about the dialogue and over-abundance of 'humour' than the CG, which really shows how much that worries me.

  • Lack of depth - I'm really going to try and let this one slide. I don't particularly enjoy big dumb films with little to no depth or intelligence. I was pleasantly surprised that BvS wasn't all out stupid. But with a big team film like this, it probably doesn't leave a lot of room for deep psychological character studies and emotional resonance, perhaps that comes easier in solo films (if Warner will allow it when audiences have repeatedly made clear they don't like it).


---

I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised. Nonetheless, whatever it is like, I would still really like to have a Whedon-Free Snyder Cut on Blu-Ray just to see what he would have done.

« Last Edit: Nov 9th, 2017, 12:04pm by Nick » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Justice League
« Reply #1 on: Nov 9th, 2017, 5:04pm »

I feel you, but I'm getting HYPED for it. I've liked BvS and WW, so I have (guarded) hopes for this one.
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xx Re: Justice League
« Reply #2 on: Nov 16th, 2017, 8:41pm »

I was hyped for this movie and it did not disappoint me. Going to leave discussion until everyone's (both of you) had a chance to see it.
Wait throughout the credits. There are 2 scenes.
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xx Re: Justice League
« Reply #3 on: Nov 17th, 2017, 3:34pm »

Short spoiler free thoughts:

  • The Snyder/Whedon divide was extremely noticable and jarring. Snyder shots would be location or set based with sudden cheap looking bluescreen Whedon inserts with incredibly jarring dialogue.

  • There was Snyder material I greatly enjoyed, was neutral to, and disliked.

  • There was Whedon material that I could deal with, and Whedon material I hated. His inserts started off unnecessary; adding absolutely nothing to character or story, but not at his Avengers level cringiness. The longer the film went on the worse his material grew with worsening 'humour' and 'crowd pleasing' that felt at odds with the infinitely more organic and unforced genuine humour from the Snyder directed footage. The exclusively Whedon scenes were also mostly a noticably lower quality in the writing and were certainly noticably lower quality in the filmmaking quality.

  • Just like in the comics, Cyborg sucks and has no place here. I get they want to establish Superman as the first big powerful hero that modern humans are aware of, hence Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter coming later. And I know Geoff Johns has a massive hard-on for Cyborg hence the big push. But damn does he suck the life out of the film every time he's on screen.


Overall I thought it was alright. It was more of the MoS CG reliant Snyder action I have big issues with than the more grounded BvS, but it had some decent character moments sprinkled through the Snyder footage. Overall the Whedon footage didn't ruin it, but it was probably 50% pointless and 50% increasingly damaging to the film.

For me I much preferred it to MoS. But preferred BvS, SS and WW to this. I'm fairly certain a Whedon free cut would have elevated it to quite enjoyed for me. So it's sad it had to be diluted this way.
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 17th, 2017, 7:17pm »

Came back from watching it earlier.

Flawed? Yes. Bad? No.

My main complaint is the attempted humor - mostly from Flash. It didn't always work and felt unnecessary. The CGI really didn't bother me. The story was fine. Steppenwolf could have been a better villain.

So yeah, I liked it. More so than Suicide Squad which was truly a mess, and not more than Batman v. Superman which I didn't think was a mess to begin with.

I noticed Rotten Tomatoes has it at 39% from critics and 89% from everyone else. Wow.

And wow at that last post credits scene.
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 18th, 2017, 08:07am »

The only things "jarring" to me were (1) the numerous unnecessary crotch-and-butt shots of Wonder Woman. They didn't use those camera angles on the males. (2) Superman's mustache removal.
Being a TT fan, I can't say I hated Cyborg, but I certainly resent the fact that he got on screen before Nightwing. If Batman were creating an army in a universe where he obviously had previous partners (per Gordon's dialogue), why not start with who he trusts?
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« Reply #6 on: Nov 19th, 2017, 02:49am »

I still need to watch it. From what I gather, I will enjoy it but my briefs will remain clean.
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 19th, 2017, 03:27am »

I won't post spoiler thoughts yet, but I enjoyed this (accurate) picture:

https://i.imgur.com/1AtlF5j.jpg

Also a rather comprehensive list of Whedon changes (spoilers obviously):

https://www.reddit.com/r/DCEUleaks/comments/7dob2k/resetera_insider_leaks_snyder_original_cut_details/




on Nov 18th, 2017, 08:07am, snipe wrote:
...I certainly resent the fact that he got on screen before Nightwing. If Batman were creating an army in a universe where he obviously had previous partners (per Gordon's dialogue), why not start with who he trusts?


I think, and I am really stretching here, is that somewhere in BvS/JL/Trailers Batman says something about needing more people with 'abilities' ie metahumans - so maybe he is leaving his trusted partners out of it to keep them safe? Batman himself has been on his suicidal 'die a martyr' quest ever since Superman/Zod and sees it as his duty to go all in. Although obviously we all know in reality his most trusted ally and most awesome person in the whole DCU would be right there with him. I really hope when Nightwing is introduced they don't go down the 1980s/19990s conflict between the two and have them not talking or working with each other, I prefer the 2000s slick partnership.

« Last Edit: Nov 19th, 2017, 03:40am by Nick » User IP Logged

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xx Re: Justice League
« Reply #8 on: Nov 20th, 2017, 6:22pm »

on Nov 19th, 2017, 03:27am, Nick wrote:
I think, and I am really stretching here, is that somewhere in BvS/JL/Trailers Batman says something about needing more people with 'abilities' ie metahumans - so maybe he is leaving his trusted partners out of it to keep them safe? Batman himself has been on his suicidal 'die a martyr' quest ever since Superman/Zod and sees it as his duty to go all in. Although obviously we all know in reality his most trusted ally and most awesome person in the whole DCU would be right there with him. I really hope when Nightwing is introduced they don't go down the 1980s/19990s conflict between the two and have them not talking or working with each other, I prefer the 2000s slick partnership.



I think you're right with the "abilities" bit. I'm looking forward to the new (no pun intended) Teen Titans show. Looks like their streaming service is going to hinge on it being a hit. They don't want their service to fail.
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« Reply #9 on: Nov 22nd, 2017, 2:55pm »

I'm going to have to reference one spoiler now because I've been holding it all week:

Going forward I need Rose Wilson so badly. A proper white haired, eyepatched Rose Wilson. Have her already fighting for good. Have Nightwing as her mentor. Infinite fun awaits. I need more Rose in my life.

I'm talking about the films because the TV series sounds like it is based on the original generation rather than the legacies so Rose wouldn't go there. Unless they put her in anyway, and I'll try that too.
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xx Re: Justice League
« Reply #10 on: Nov 22nd, 2017, 4:15pm »

on Nov 22nd, 2017, 2:55pm, Nick wrote:
Going forward I need Rose Wilson so badly. A proper white haired, eyepatched Rose Wilson. Have her already fighting for good. Have Nightwing as her mentor. Infinite fun awaits. I need more Rose in my life.


I'd be 100% for this. There doesn't appear to be a Damien in this universe yet, so yes to Rose as Nightwing's "robin."

on Nov 22nd, 2017, 2:55pm, Nick wrote:
I'm talking about the films because the TV series sounds like it is based on the original generation rather than the legacies so Rose wouldn't go there. Unless they put her in anyway, and I'll try that too.


Yeah, I know. I'm just excited to be a fan right now. I'm liking the movies and the TV hasn't been bad, though it's currently on a downward spin. Each show is.
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« Reply #11 on: Nov 23rd, 2017, 4:20pm »

I liked it. cheesy
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« Reply #12 on: Nov 29th, 2017, 04:21am »

This film turned out to be a pleasant surprise for me.

Sure, the CGI was too much, the difference between the Whedon and Snyder parts were sometimes jarring and the villain wasn't that impressive, but, all in all, I liked it.

I liked Affleck as Batman; I thought one of the only good things about BvS were the parts with Batman and I thought he was fine.

I also liked Aquaman (badass) and even Cyborg, and the humourous parts with The Flash did not bother me that much; the audience (the room was packed) sure seemed to like him.

I'm totally in love with Gal Gadot, so everything she does is fine by me...

However, the movie seems to bomb at the box office, right? At the time of this writing, the box office returns are at $485 million, against a budget of $300 million (a lot more when including the marketing costs), so...I guess Warner/DC are at a crossroads here; what to do?

Upcoming movies of interest:

- Aquaman
- Wonder Woman (sequel)
- Cyborg
- Justice League, Part 2 (Reportedly pushed back on schedule in favor of The Batman solo film).

By various reports, Warner Bros. is reportedly also developing a Man of Steel sequel, Gotham City Sirens film starring Margot Robbie as Harley Quinn and directed by David Ayer, Deadshot and Nightwing solo films, a Suicide Squad sequel, Justice League Dark, a Batgirl film by Joss Whedon, and the delayed The Flash: Flashpoint (new title) - last scheduled for March 16, 2018.
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« Reply #13 on: Nov 30th, 2017, 11:26am »

Damn, Disney went all out and used the ultimate bad guy this time!

https://twitter.com/BatmanNewsCom/status/935976664303112193
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« Reply #14 on: Dec 9th, 2017, 2:29pm »

So there are endless rumours that Ben Affleck wants out of playing Batman. Personally I think that would be sad, I would like to see him prove himself in a solo film because based on his performances so far I think he would actually do pretty damn well.

I was having a think today about if they do recast Batman and came up with the perfect solution - Michael Keaton cheesy
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