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B:TAS
Post by Batman on Jul 16th, 2005, 5:24pm

Just thought I'd bring this topic back as this show is still one of the best out there...

I started watching eps again, starting with season 2...Laughing Fish is always a classic

Dick kicks ass in Night of the Ninja....I've only finished the first disc...and I havent even opened season 3 (I wanted to go in order)

Can't wait to see Almost Got Im...Discuss B:TAS here ...favorite eps, etc.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Gaunt on Jul 18th, 2005, 1:17pm

B:TAS will always remain one of my fondest childhood memories. I still love the series, and I rewatch those episodes as much as I can.

My personal favorite would have to be "Tyger, Tyger." It's very poetic, especially when connected to William Blake's "The Tyger." In fact, I wrote an extensive analysis of the episode which I posted on Toonzone.

"Almost Got 'Im" is another good episode, particularly with the entertaining character interaction between the villains. In fact, this used to be my favorite episode (but was replaced by "Tyger, Tyger").

Other favorites include "Fear of Victory," "Joker's Wild," "It's Never Too Late," and "Two-Face."

The episode I hate the most would have to be "The Last Laugh." Horrible animation, horrible dialogue, and horrible characterization. There is nothing positive I can say about this episode.

Other hated episodes include "Appointment in Crime Alley," "Cat Scratch Fever," "The Forgotten," and "Day of the Samurai."
Re: B:TAS
Post by Batman on Jul 24th, 2005, 02:16am

Is Forgotten the one about the kids in the sewers who are ruled over by some guy with crocs....I can't remember which one that is but I hated it. Its dumb and tries to be funny and has a bad story. Also Batman throws around CROCS, honestly these crocs are huge and at least a 1000lbs so its stupid that he can just throw em.....I like realism
Re: B:TAS
Post by CapedCrusaderJRK on Jul 24th, 2005, 10:28pm

on Jul 24th, 2005, 02:16am, Batman wrote:
Is Forgotten the one about the kids in the sewers who are ruled over by some guy with crocs....I can't remember which one that is but I hated it. Its dumb and tries to be funny and has a bad story. Also Batman throws around CROCS, honestly these crocs are huge and at least a 1000lbs so its stupid that he can just throw em.....I like realism


No, "The Forgotten" is where Bruce, disquised as a bum, is trying to investigate why the homeless are disapearing, but is kidnapped with them to a work camp in the desert. Something like that, it's been a while since I've seen it.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Batman on Jul 25th, 2005, 12:15am

Oh yeah! Thx JRK cheesy I never really minded that one but never thought it was great either. I liked the scene with Alfred in the Batplane.

I just saw the episodes Heart of Steel pts 1 & 2 and these are some wicked eps. I know there is a bit of a follow up to this episode too but I can't remember it.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Gaunt on Jul 25th, 2005, 10:29pm

Quote:
I just saw the episodes Heart of Steel pts 1 & 2 and these are some wicked eps. I know there is a bit of a follow up to this episode too but I can't remember it.


The last part of the HARDAC trilogy would be "His Silicon Soul." I found it to be superior to the "Heart of Steel" episodes (those episodes are still good, but not as good as "His Silicon Soul").

Another good episode would be "Baby-Doll." It seems like one of B:TAS's comedy episodes, but it is suprisingly dark.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Batman on Jul 25th, 2005, 10:39pm

Thanks Gaunt cheesy I sort of remember baby-doll but I havent even started season 3 yet and I have so many eps of season 2 left.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Batman on Jul 27th, 2005, 5:30pm

Just saw "Tyger, Tyger" and I agree with you totally Gaunt. What a wicked episode...it had everything from mystery & Suspense to some wicked action and great drama. The ending.....SPOILERS....






was great too with Typrus asking Selina to be the only one of their kind together so he doesnt have to be alone all his life, and she refuses and it makes sense but it's altogether sad too. Typrus was a great character and when he poured his heart out it was well done......just a awesome friggin' episode.

Joker's Wild was not bad either although the lackluster escape from Arkham was too stupid. There were only 2 guards and an open door in Joker's way.... sad
Re: B:TAS
Post by Gaunt on Jul 27th, 2005, 10:53pm

I love "Tyger, Tyger." Hell, I even wrote an eight-page analysis (currently revising) on that episode, connecting it with Blake's poem, as well as looking for possible themes. I loved it as a kid, and I love it today.

"Joker's Wild" is a good episode unfortunately animated by AKOM (one of the worst animation studios). It's one of my favorite episodes, otherwise.

Regarding the Arkham breakout, it seemed that Kaiser devised it so the Joker could get out easily (the security guard with the black hair is seen again at Kaiser's penthouse).

Man, are we the only two fans of the show on this forum?


Re: B:TAS
Post by Batman on Jul 30th, 2005, 10:51pm

That's what I am thinking since we are the only ones who are posting..but hey we'll keep it alive cheesy There was a post of this before and I know people posted before so i don't know what's stopping them now.

I thought all the eps were animated from the same place (They said in the commentary that is was someplace in Japan). I didn't notice any differences in "Joker's Wild".

Kaiser is a smart man I guess....well done Gaunt grin my brother and I were like that was the worst escape ever before.
Re: B:TAS
Post by dudelovebaby on Aug 20th, 2005, 07:20am

That show is my favourite childhood memory.

Personally i like the Two-Face two parter (I'm sure that pun was intended). On Leather Wings is also really good on account of it being the first episode I saw. I think it would be shorter for me to list the episodes I hate. Let me see now... Oh wait there's none that I hate.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Batman on Aug 22nd, 2005, 03:34am

I just saw I Am The Night and it was amazing. The Animation studio on this episode did a great job and I noticed little touches that I really liked.

Amazing altogether......nuff' said.
Re: B:TAS
Post by dudelovebaby on Aug 22nd, 2005, 04:23am

Is that the one where Gordon got shot?
Re: B:TAS
Post by Batman on Aug 22nd, 2005, 3:52pm

yes, the one with the Jazzman as the antagonist.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Sarge on Aug 22nd, 2005, 4:48pm

This show is the reason why I'm so into Batman. As a kid, I could not get enough of this foreboding, emotionless character who wasn't afraid to get rough with some thugs. This totally blew my mind because my prior perception of superheroes was that they were completely altruisic, and morally absolute. Black was black, white was white, and there was only good and evil. Then this cartoon comes along about this rich guy who dresses up as a Bat and scares the shit out of people...it rocked my world. To this day I believe that the Dini/Timm team are the only ones who really got the Batman character and his world down perfect. They blended every great writers contributions to the character. From Denny O'Neill to Frank Miller, it was a just the perfect balance. The storytelling was dark and mature for a childrens cartoon, and dealt with themes that were a little beyond the average viewers comprehension, without totally confusing them. It also helps that Conroy got the voice down pat.
Re: B:TAS
Post by JTurner954 on Aug 23rd, 2005, 9:21pm

Just announced: BTAS Volume 4 comes out on December 6. Once art is available, I will post it.

And there's a rumor of a Batman Beyond box next year.
Re: B:TAS
Post by snipe on Aug 24th, 2005, 07:00am

on Aug 23rd, 2005, 9:21pm, JTurner954 wrote:
Just announced: BTAS Volume 4 comes out on December 6. Once art is available, I will post it.


And this will be The New Adventures (redesigned characters, Tim as Robin, Dick as Nightwing, etc.)?
Re: B:TAS
Post by JTurner954 on Aug 24th, 2005, 7:02pm

Yep, and here's the cover to prove it:

User Image
Extras: Commentary on "Over the Edge", "Critters" and "Legends of the Dark Knight" by Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, Glen Murakami, James Tucker, Dan Riba and Moderator Jason Hillhouse

Arkham's Finest: Inside Batman's Rogue Gallery featurette

All info. from TVShowsonDVD.


Re: B:TAS
Post by Batman on Aug 25th, 2005, 05:25am

will this have all 24 episodes?

There should be some mention of Gotham Knights or something on the cover since it is like a new series for the same creators. And because it is not directly continued from the last box set...i.e. Tim as Robin, Nightwing......but I'm very very happy to see it on DVD and now all we got to wait for is Justice League DVDs to come out to complete my Timm/Dini Batman collection.

Is there going to be a Justice League DVD box set? I'd be very unhappy if they weren't in the making.
Re: B:TAS
Post by snipe on Aug 25th, 2005, 06:44am

on Aug 25th, 2005, 05:25am, Batman wrote:
There should be some mention of Gotham Knights or something on the cover since it is like a new series for the same creators.


Under volume four, it says "from the new Batman Adventures."
Re: B:TAS
Post by emma_c22000 on Aug 25th, 2005, 10:48am

We don't seem to be getting a region 2 release over here as of yet which is very disappointing to say the least. I love the animated series and would be delighted to be able to own all of the episodes on DVD.

I suppose I just have to wait. cry
Re: B:TAS
Post by snipe on Aug 25th, 2005, 5:19pm

on Aug 25th, 2005, 10:48am, Batgirl wrote:
We don't seem to be getting a region 2 release over here as of yet which is very disappointing to say the least. I love the animated series and would be delighted to be able to own all of the episodes on DVD.

I suppose I just have to wait. cry


I'll let you watch mine next time you visit wink
Re: B:TAS
Post by emma_c22000 on Aug 25th, 2005, 5:46pm

on Aug 25th, 2005, 5:19pm, snipe wrote:
I'll let you watch mine next time you visit wink

I'll be round in 5 mins. cheesy
Re: B:TAS
Post by Will on Aug 26th, 2005, 6:48pm

The New Adventures doesn't tend to do it for me. I haven't seen that many eps, but from what I did see... embarassed

Sidekick central with a definite decline in maturity and overall intelligence. Why can't Batman be a loner consistently? Hell, on this redefined show he's now just the opposite consistently.

I do tend to believe that anytime Batgirl shows up things take a downturn for Bats. No offense, Emma. It opens up the floodgates and decentralizes any idea of darkness and depression as far as the title character and the motivation that therefore created Batman in the first place -- you drain this away and you first end up in the realm of the many times thoughtless superhero confrontation sub-genre, eventually further leading down the road to total self-aware camp.

Then, of course, Batman at some point is "purified" and "brought back to his roots", becoming the loner he was before all these sidekicks showed up and drained away or replaced the ideas at the base of the character's (previous) existence. The question is, if this can be seen as a problem with an obvious remedy how is it that we always arrive at this same problematic point only to blow it up and start over with what was moved away from and/or betrayed, leading to that same later point at all? Spit. Rinse. Repeat.

All this is valid to the character, of course, because it has become so inherent through the material as traced by history. Changing and circling back around to what he started as -- happens over and over again, and every step in that process is as much a part of Batman as any other -- thus making the totality of the cycle valid in or as its totality, as well as the sweeping idea of his being a character that is a rorscharch test for the specific subject/artist/writer/reader/etc. rather than a character that has one definitive vision to work from.

I do, however, prefer certain phases over others most definitely. And The New Adventures falls into the wrong category from what I've witnessed.
Re: B:TAS
Post by emma_c22000 on Aug 26th, 2005, 7:32pm

on Aug 26th, 2005, 6:48pm, Will wrote:
I do tend to believe that anytime Batgirl shows up things take a downturn for Bats. No offense, Emma.

None taken, Will. angry

In all seriousness though I'm somewhat in agreement with you here. The whole extended Bat-family (save for maybe Nightwing and Robin) does detract from the darkness of Batman. I'm not talking just about the new adventures here, I'm talking about all medium including the comic books.

Batman's supporting cast, within his own titles at least, needs to be stripped back down to the bare minimum.

Might I suggest a mass cull? cheesy
Re: B:TAS
Post by Sarge on Aug 26th, 2005, 7:35pm

Huntress just really needs to fucking die. I HATE her.
Re: B:TAS
Post by emma_c22000 on Aug 26th, 2005, 7:42pm

Maybe you should make up an execution list, Sarge? smiley
Re: B:TAS
Post by Sarge on Aug 26th, 2005, 7:48pm

Good idea, it would consist of:

Huntress
Hush (just kill him goddammit and save us all this muddled storytelling and horrible writing)
Jade
Cable
Rob Liefeld
Krypto
Gwen Stacys bastard children
Dr. Doom (I don't know why so many people are on his nuts, I effing HATE this lame-ass.)
Re: B:TAS
Post by JTurner954 on Aug 28th, 2005, 4:00pm

Not a fan of The New Adventures,eh? Perhaps one of these other versions of animated Batman are to your liking:

Coming September 20:

User Image

User Image

Coming October 18:

User Image

And if you're sick of seeing Batman, here's the latest on Robin, also on September 20:

User Image
Re: B:TAS
Post by snipe on Aug 28th, 2005, 5:35pm

I'm tired of these damned single dvd packages. Just wait and put them out in seasons or volumes angry
Re: B:TAS
Post by JTurner954 on Aug 28th, 2005, 6:00pm

Just for you, I'll include this:

User Image

This set will include "World's Finest", the three part episode with Superman/Batman vs. Lex Luthor/Joker. Part 1 will have commentary and comes out on December 6 as well.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Will on Aug 28th, 2005, 10:19pm

I'll probably take The New Adventures over those alternatives, thanks. Same problem with The New Adventures strikes with all these other animated productions: they're progressively dumbed down variations on the original dark deco brilliance of Dini/Timm some 10+ years ago.

I want nothing to do with The Justice League, The Batman or Teen Titans. embarassed

At some point I might buy The New Adventures set, even though it's of lower quality compared to what came previous to it -- Legends of the Dark Knight alone (which I've yet to view) interests me enough. I just wish the episodes didn't play like lame samples at times of what the original series was.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Batman on Aug 29th, 2005, 12:39am

on Aug 28th, 2005, 5:35pm, snipe wrote:
I'm tired of these damned single dvd packages. Just wait and put them out in seasons or volumes angry


Total Agreement...I want the Justice League Episodes but I'm not going to fork out all my dough for it. Bastards!

on Aug 28th, 2005, 10:19pm, Will wrote:
Legends of the Dark Knight alone (which I've yet to view) interests me enough. I just wish the episodes didn't play like lame samples at times of what the original series was.


Whats Legends of the Dark Knight?

Of all the new DC shows out there Justice League has to be the best. Not because the other shows are bad but this show is just fucking awesome from the mature attitude to the great storytelling, its all good. Plus the writers still have a love for Batman so he's in a lot of the episodes even though he's "not" a member. This show is better than Gotham Knights and it's up to the stardard of quality we expect from the makers of TAS.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Will on Aug 29th, 2005, 02:17am

on Aug 29th, 2005, 12:39am, Batman wrote:
Whats Legends of the Dark Knight?


It's an ep of The New Batman Adventures that goes through the different eras and visions of Batman.

on Aug 29th, 2005, 12:39am, Batman wrote:
Of all the new DC shows out there Justice League has to be the best. Not because the other shows are bad but this show is just fucking awesome from the mature attitude to the great storytelling, its all good. Plus the writers still have a love for Batman so he's in a lot of the episodes even though he's "not" a member. This show is better than Gotham Knights and it's up to the stardard of quality we expect from the makers of TAS.


I must admit that I haven't paid all that much attention, but I left it on an episode some time ago and what I saw seemed to be sloppy and lacking quality. Could be wrong, but it didn't make me recall the glory of TAS.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Batman on Aug 29th, 2005, 05:43am

on Aug 29th, 2005, 02:17am, Will wrote:

Could be wrong, but it didn't make me recall the glory of TAS.


It may be because of the lack of dark deco which reminds us all of the TAS days. cry
Re: B:TAS
Post by dudelovebaby on Aug 29th, 2005, 06:11am

on Aug 28th, 2005, 10:19pm, Will wrote:
I'll probably take The New Adventures over those alternatives, thanks. Same problem with The New Adventures strikes with all these other animated productions: they're progressively dumbed down variations on the original dark deco brilliance of Dini/Timm some 10+ years ago.

I want nothing to do with The Justice League, The Batman or Teen Titans. embarassed

At some point I might buy The New Adventures set, even though it's of lower quality compared to what came previous to it -- Legends of the Dark Knight alone (which I've yet to view) interests me enough. I just wish the episodes didn't play like lame samples at times of what the original series was.


*Proudly has never seen an episode of Teen Titans or The Batman*

Justice League wasn't bad at first. Not enough Batman though.

But I totally agree Will, if it ain't from Bruce and Timm it ain't worth it. The quality of Batman toons decreased in quality severely once TAS ended.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Sarge on Aug 29th, 2005, 07:30am

Justice Leauge (Especially Justice Leauge Unlimited) is probably Timms best work by far.
Re: B:TAS
Post by snipe on Aug 29th, 2005, 11:40am

I have enjoyed the JLA and JLU, but I've seen very little of both. I do love the way JLU is using some of the second, third, and forth tier characters. Not just Batman, Superman, and WW.
I must say, though aimed at kids, I like the Teen Titans show. There's just enough content from the Wolfman / Perez days to keep me occupied.
How's Superman TAS? The only thing I've seen from it was the Superman / Batman "movie," which didn't suck. I've also heard rumors of an episode where Batman was missing and Superman wore his outfit and teamed with Robin. Are there only 2 volumes of material from that show?
Re: B:TAS
Post by Batman on Aug 30th, 2005, 01:24am

I've seen a few episodes of Superman and it acuratley depicts Superman but it's not that great. Definately not up there with TAS or JLU. I saw the movie though and I thought it was not bad, had some good parts.
Re: B:TAS
Post by JTurner954 on Aug 30th, 2005, 05:03am

I think Justice League's second season (before it became Unlimited) was the best time to watch the show. In the DVD intros, Bruce Timm mentions comics that inspired episodes and season two continued that tradition with strong storytelling (there's even one episode where a group of villains are voiced by the VA's in Teen Titans). JLU has its moments; the latest arc with Cadmus was incredible. And The Question - if he had an ongoing series, there's a 95% chance I would start reading it. The last new episode of JLU that aired had a Batman Beyond connection. I liked it, but at the same time felt it was unnecessary.

STAS is good, though the finale felt like a letdown (I'm told it was due to WB not renewing the series). I'd definitely recommend it, especially if you're a Jack Kirby fan ( I didn't like the episode in question, but Kirby fans sure did). One more thing: The voice of Superman is different. Tim Daly (Wings) did the voice on STAS and went on to work on the television version of The Fugitive.

Teen Titans: Eh. It's slowly losing my interest. I've been saying it's better than The Batman, but after seeing the last few episodes [of The Batman] on Toonami ... a shift has begun.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Will on Aug 30th, 2005, 5:24pm

on Aug 29th, 2005, 05:43am, Batman wrote:
It may be because of the lack of dark deco which reminds us all of the TAS days. cry


That's another example of style as substance though. Tone and look matter a great deal, and are as substantive as what you have to say in that they dictate how you communicate. You take away mood and you take away weight.
Re: B:TAS
Post by JTurner954 on Dec 2nd, 2005, 7:03pm

Just wanted to remind everyone that the last BTAS box set comes out this Tuesday.
Re: B:TAS
Post by snipe on Dec 2nd, 2005, 10:48pm

on Dec 2nd, 2005, 7:03pm, JTurner954 wrote:
Just wanted to remind everyone that the last BTAS box set comes out this Tuesday.


I hate when stuff comes out this time of the year - now I have to wait until at least Christmas.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Motown Marvel on Dec 3rd, 2005, 12:12pm

this is the last box set, right? the entire series is contained within the four boxsets?
Re: B:TAS
Post by snipe on Dec 3rd, 2005, 12:42pm

Yep - this is the set where a new Robin is introduced (Tim) and Nightwing appears. Also, we'll get the character redesigns (more angular).
Re: B:TAS
Post by Batman on Dec 9th, 2005, 12:39am

I did not like the new character designs at all, and why get rid of the dark deco for this season? Stupid decision... The drawings are just so simple its not really appealing...but I've only seen a few eps of Gotham Knights and they've been ok at best.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Will on Dec 10th, 2005, 01:50am

Picked up volume four. I've hardly watched any eps from the redsign but I wasn't that impressed with what I previously saw. Hopefully when I get a better sense of what was done I'll also appreciate it more.

Even the guy at the checkout counter was bitching about how they "dumbed down the show".
Re: B:TAS
Post by Motown Marvel on Dec 11th, 2005, 12:40am

who's gonna buy me B:TAS vol. 1-4?
Re: B:TAS
Post by Will on Dec 14th, 2005, 08:13am

After watching three chapters the verdict so far is that this is a step down. On one hand you could argue that, on the surface, the problem comes in the form of the show's narrative technique paralleling the course set by its simplified animation style. But while simplification (dumbing down) of plotting/characterization is a flaw that is undeniably present, this has as much or more to do with the fact that these episodes are as concerned with the sidekicks as they are Batman and whoever the villain is -- problem is that the sidekicks are side fodder that garner too much attention for wasteful moments and scenes meant solely to show them off as animated figures and/or personalities -- and that means that simply too much is going on.

We have an ensemble or team show that is at least as focused on the family unit's interaction as it is with the conflict between the titular hero and the villain of the piece. Too much emphasis is placed on Batman as teacher/mentor/father figure rather than grim creature of the night hunting criminals.

Holiday Knights' nicest vignette is that of its opening -- Harley Quinn and Ivy in a night on the town paid for by Bruce Wayne (worth it alone for the sixties-inspired fashion montage) -- but the Batgirl portion is as senseless and worthless as she tends to be as a character. And while it's refreshing to see the Joker's true malice partially unleashed (finally he can murder) this new-found content freedom is placed within a conflict that is as unimpressive in its own way as the previously constrained Joker eps were. Somewhat recalls the confrontation of Burton's first Batman, but whereas that film's crowd/parade scene was a clever comment on 80's excess and greed (people weren't there because they trusted the Joker, they were there for the cash) this gathering is one of disgusting stupidity that seems only to be driven by Gothamites insatiable holiday spirit. Spare me.

The Joker going to the trouble of all those masks, still easily outing himself due to his lust to be the center of attention was a nice (and convenient) touch, though. The episode is lite in tone and depth which seems to be a warning of things to come for the show.

Sins of the Father follows that same note, making the problem more explicit because a character origin for someone of Robin's importance would seem to call for more tonal gravity. As would the specific outline itself for this tale.

Underlines the problem I'm having with this revamp -- the lack of emotional intimacy and, from that, depth. Instead we have episodes that consistently lose focus of the main line in the damaging lust to have a cacophony of poorly-weaved together character moments. It feels more akin to a cleaned up Looney Toons affair than any type of a stab at reasonably mature drama. It all feels too bouncy, poppy -- light -- while so much of the original run found wonder in the quiet, small moments; moments that this iteration is lacking. After all, what household with children tends towards these qualities from the standpoint of caricatured abstraction?

Tragic elements as barely present window-dressing with characters that seem barely connected to these feelings. What then does the audience have to go on?

Characters no longer are explored; they're trotted out -- stuck in for their 30 seconds/five minutes of action and a witticism here and there.

Tim Drake (in name only, he's really as much a sanitized post-Crisis Todd if we're to be honest) is not given an interesting introduction in the least, so far as execution goes (which means the entire episode is shot). Everything we expect to happen, well, it happens -- usually exactly on cue -- with not one moment of poignance or dramatic heft to be found (again, execution). The cliff notes of this character's beginnings translated verbatim to the screen, so paint by numbers that you can't help but wonder what the point is other than the episode's end which dictates all the rest (get us a Robin, pronto). And that ending scene? For what's obviously supposed to be a "moment" it's notable only for its bizarre flatness (oh, there's Dick. Huh. Roll credits). Shockingly bland in its lack of style and pacing sensibility (how to draw lines and make incisive cuts).

The fate of Mr. Freeze in Cold Comfort has the makings of a tragic tale in the vein of -- if not on par with -- Heart of Ice. Instead it's overall as bland as Freeze's henchwomen.

It has some nice ideas but they're carried out poorly and buried under the sidekick obsession that the show is chained to. Even so, there are a few decent moments that involve those maligned tang alongs in this outing, such as the visual divisions between Freeze and Batman that are summed up in the console scenes -- one surrounded by his "family" the other surrounded by grunts so ill-defined that they're interchangeable (the cold as defined by color scheme in this empty blandness is a point considered and well-made when looking at the overall tableau of Freeze and these associates).

I wasn't too enamored of the Batgirl training scene or its later payoff (see! SEE! There was a point, people) but the one intimate moment with Bruce as a father to Tim was very nicely done.

There's also a deft touch as far as the implicit sexual crisis of Freeze's predicament by way of these female helpers surrounding him, all like his wife an impossibility to him. They even give his name a certain tragedy with this episode, don't they?

The bad comes in the form of wasted potential -- ideas that don't coalesce into a beautiful form brought to life through movement. The tragedy that the story is laced with is never given its due, as if creators that arguably gave this character one of the great tragic villain orgins are now afraid of dwelling in any way on that same pain; sure, it's provided as abstruse content, but it's never given an outlet through characterization.

And the ending? As much a misfire as the final moments of Sins of the Father. As with so much else, not enough time is given to make an impact. Ideas that seem as stultified and frozen in concept form as Freeze is in his iceberg during the 15 whole seconds given before we get the usual credit sequence.

This ep's similarities to Schumacher's B&R brings forth a thought already present and inescapable: Warner's clear mandates on the need for sidekicks, the show itself a vague tie-in just as TAS was to Burton's work years earlier.

The presence of the sidekicks (or a sidekick) in each story is tied to a job of overselling through forced justification -- it backfires because the idea that Batman so badly needs these characters by his side rings hollow while at the same time it's weakening him as a unique and impressive figure each and every time. They do the same to his rogues. The conflict is ripped apart, replaced by unfocused doodles.

They simply take up too much time and provide nothing that the story needs all too often, instead chewing huge bits out of what would have been the true meat of these stories. Now, of course, we're talking about a sidekick origin with one of these episodes, but that seems a victim of dispassion and at least one too many sidekicks itself.

Which leads me to a complaint that you must have seen coming: what is Batgirl's relevance? I can't find it. She's not an orphan, and the inference that she's a member of this family brings with it its own questions as to what that role is (I suppose an issue that BB would later have a bit of fun with). Of the sidekicks, she's the biggie of a misfit and problem.

Point of fact, minus Batgirl's training arc in Freeze's episode and you'd have enough time to squeeze some semblance of emotion into his plight, certainly the image at the end could be given far more impact with proper presentation. And what does she do other than detract from Tim's debut in Sins? Now Batman not only needs a Robin, he needs a team?

Batgirl is a sign of the apocalypse for Batman in any medium. TAS, though never to the extremes of the others, follows the same path as the comics and movies -- beginnings in darkness and endings in a sidekick-laden stupor intended to excite (in some ways) and pacify (in others) the younger audience.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Will on Dec 15th, 2005, 10:01am

A visual tractate on women as sex objects and the perversity of the always growing youth culture, Mean Seasons is a gem of an episode.

Statement made from the opening scene -- a runway show with a funny yet pointed bit of interplay between a man and an aged, overweight woman in the audience -- this story has great fun savaging the purveyors of this cultural illness, most especially Hollywood (always so full of strained logic, or plain illogic, from the side of focus groups and standards that veer wildly, as TAS had to deal with constantly) and the general sexism of males. The fall previews for Model Students and Teen Cop are hilariously on the mark, as is the casting couch scene.

Calendar Girl's mask is a nice bit of shorthand as to the frozen, expressionless face created through the pursuit of eternal beauty. The Chippendale's henchmen are used as an unsubtle reversal of the sexes, and how little we tend to see men put in the more degrading position being mere eye candy (can you find a more stark example of this than the entertainment business?).

A motif of what's new runs throughout: fashions, cars, tv shows (always with women sexualized as a part of the presentation). Callender Girl's weapons fall into the realm of statement as well -- Easter Eggs signifying new beginnings/youth/the ideal, fallen leaves being, of course, the opposite side of that coin , and the ep's big set piece showdown with an animatronic t-rex (the irony of literal dinosaurs seemingly always being "hot" while the word is used as a figurative putdown or death knell for significance of people within that same societal structure). And the image of the scythe could be no more appropriate -- what is agism about if not our true overwhelming fear of death?

Even Bruce Wayne and Batman are not free from guilt and self-worry on the subject -- Wayne checking for gray hairs and being responsible for the continuing policy of age discrimination within his own company, while Batman's sexism is rebuked by Batgirl in the Batcave sequence (Barbara this time put to good use rather than providing for unnecessary baggage that grows to dead weight, actually fitting and reaffirming thematic intent while not making a mess of the narrative that has to make that theme actually work).

The final scene/shots feel properly paced this time out as well.

Broken mirror, broken psyche. A fractured retelling of The Legend of Narcissus. In love with the image of what she was, hateful of what she now is, a victim and reaction to how she became this way. Like the best Batman villains (and often Batman himself), a flaw or tick that can be found somewhere inside of all of us that is expressed through the extremes of a psychotic rage spurred by inadequacy and/or loss.
Re: B:TAS
Post by snipe on Dec 15th, 2005, 10:33am

Old Wounds has been my favorite episode, but I haven't seen it in years. I'd love to hear your commentary on it.
Re: B:TAS
Post by snipe on Dec 15th, 2005, 10:34am

on Dec 14th, 2005, 08:13am, Will wrote:
Tim Drake (in name only, he's really as much a sanitized post-Crisis Todd if we're to be honest) [...]


Right on. Have you had a chance yet to see Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker? They play this up much more.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Will on Dec 17th, 2005, 10:22am

on Dec 15th, 2005, 10:34am, snipe wrote:
Right on. Have you had a chance yet to see Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker? They play this up much more.


No. Beyond didn't interest me that much at all until recently. I'm interested in the storylines (backstories) for the characters from TAS but I still can't say that I find anything about Terry intriguing. And that's a big problem.

Or not. Depends on whether the show really goes with the idea of Terry only being a necessary evil; a cypher by itent that only exists as a means to an end for the elderly Wayne.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Will on Dec 17th, 2005, 10:26am

on Dec 15th, 2005, 10:33am, snipe wrote:
Old Wounds has been my favorite episode, but I haven't seen it in years. I'd love to hear your commentary on it.


I'm jumping around, working my way towards it (continuity's loose enough that there's little reason to watch in the numbered order). I'll have more to say -- and something specific on that ep -- in the semi-near future.
know
Post by TheMidnighter on Dec 17th, 2005, 5:41pm

Does anyone know how DVD's work on computers? Are they 'region free'? Let's say someone (e.g., me) am interested in some DVD's (e.g., B:TAS) but they are not available where that person lives (e.g., The Netherlands). Would that person then be able to watch them on a personal computer? Does anyone know if those DVD drives are region free?
Thanks for answering this question.
Re: know
Post by snipe on Dec 17th, 2005, 8:59pm

on Dec 17th, 2005, 5:41pm, TheMidnighter wrote:
Does anyone know how DVD's work on computers? Are they 'region free'? Let's say someone (e.g., me) am interested in some DVD's (e.g., B:TAS) but they are not available where that person lives (e.g., The Netherlands). Would that person then be able to watch them on a personal computer? Does anyone know if those DVD drives are region free?
Thanks for answering this question.


There are some applications out there that break it. I have some European (Bowie releases everything over there first) dvds that I am able to play on my computer. Do a yahoo or google search for "region free."

Re: B:TAS
Post by Will on Dec 22nd, 2005, 11:09am

Dirk, what about a region 1 player? You can get one dirt cheap.

Or are you still lacking a tv set? That could be a problem.
Re: B:TAS
Post by midLfinger on Dec 29th, 2005, 05:18am

on Aug 28th, 2005, 10:19pm, Will wrote:
they're progressively dumbed down variations on the original dark deco brilliance of Dini/Timm some 10+ years ago.


I just bought Cinderella on DVD for my wife. It's done in that dark deco brilliance too, I think.

Re: know
Post by TheMidnighter on Dec 29th, 2005, 4:43pm

on Dec 17th, 2005, 5:41pm, TheMidnighter wrote:
Let's say someone [...] am interested in some DVD's [...]

I just noticed my horrible grammar mistake. Suck-a-licious sad.

Anyway, I don't have a television set yet, but I do have a brand new computer with DVD-rom! This should allow me to play those BTAS editions on it. Man, that would rock so much! I love those episodes.
Re: B:TAS
Post by TheManUK on Apr 18th, 2006, 10:39am

Batman: The Animated Series - I enjoyed watching it on Saturday mornings and watching them again on SE DVD I thought how the great is still and I thought of my childhood gain while watching on DVD.
Re: B:TAS
Post by snipe on Apr 18th, 2006, 10:56am

on Apr 18th, 2006, 10:39am, TheManUK wrote:
Batman: The Animated Series - I enjoyed watching it on Saturday mornings and watching them again on SE DVD I thought how the great is still and I thought of my childhood gain while watching on DVD.


You hit the nail on the head there. These episodes are just as great now as they were 10 years ago - able to be enjoyed by both child and adult.
These are timeless and absolutely brilliant.
Re: B:TAS
Post by TheManUK on Apr 18th, 2006, 11:41am

Exactly Snipe.

Re: B:TAS
Post by snipe on Apr 18th, 2006, 12:53pm

Something you guys may want to look into: There is a book out called Batman: Animated. I love it. I have two copies (seriously - one to "keep" and one to bunk up scanning stuff). It's by Chipp Kidd and Paul Dini - bunch of sketches, behind the scenes stuff, etc.
I think it's out of print now, so check ebay.
Re: B:TAS
Post by TheManUK on Apr 18th, 2006, 5:21pm

Thanks for that, I try looking it up
'ell yeah
Post by TheMidnighter on May 4th, 2006, 10:16am

Region 2 box sets of season one and two are available in The Netherlands -- I bought 'em! Fuck yeah, man! I've just watched the first five or so episodes of season one, and I'm still in love.

Now let's hope season three gets here as well, but I'm sure it will.
Re: B:TAS
Post by Clerk on May 5th, 2006, 11:54pm

Man watching this now as compared to when I was like four is awesome.

Back then I would be bored with basically anyone that wasn't Batman. I would sit half awake until Batman appeared and just punched people, then I would jump for joy in glee.

Now it's the same thing, only I'm not bored and finally grasp that TAS has stories..... and they are damn good ones at that. The Gray Ghost imparticular was just beautiful..........
Re: B:TAS
Post by JTurner954 on Sep 5th, 2017, 6:18pm

Today marks their 25th Anniversary:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/batman-animated-series-hirings-firings-last-minute-changes-1035120

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp4GsAiDMSQ
Re: B:TAS
Post by snipe on Sep 5th, 2017, 6:30pm

I just started re-watching this. Didn't realize it was the anniversary date. The new Batman vs. Harley feature got me in the mood.